tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post266379123989340262..comments2023-09-16T05:02:33.288-06:00Comments on McGowdoghouse: Spirituality vs. ReligionMcGowdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-73378126814823981462011-12-21T09:58:00.512-07:002011-12-21T09:58:00.512-07:00Freemasonry :
"Freemasonry is a fraternal or...Freemasonry :<br /><br />"Freemasonry is a fraternal organisation that arose from obscure origins in the late 16th to early 17th century. "<br /><br /><br />"Candidates for regular Freemasonry are required to declare a belief in a Supreme Being.[29] However, the candidate is not asked to expand on, or explain, his interpretation of Supreme Being. The discussion of politics and religion is forbidden within a Masonic Lodge, in part so a Mason will not be placed in the situation of having to justify his personal interpretation.[30] Thus, reference to the Supreme Being can mean the Christian Trinity to a Christian Mason, Allah to a Muslim Mason, Para Brahman to a Hindu Mason, etc. While most Freemasons would take the view that the term Supreme Being equates to God, others may hold a more complex or philosophical interpretation of the term.<br /><br />In the ritual, the Supreme Being is referred to as the Great Architect of the Universe, which alludes to the use of architectural symbolism within Freemasonry.[31][32]<br /><br />A Volume of the Sacred Law is always displayed in an open Lodge in those jurisdictions which require a belief in the Supreme Being. In English-speaking countries, this is frequently the King James Version of the Bible or another standard translation; there is no such thing as an exclusive "Masonic Bible."[33] Furthermore, a candidate is given his choice of religious text for his Obligation, according to his beliefs. UGLE alludes to similarities to legal practice in the UK, and to a common source with other oath taking processes.[34][35][36][37] In Lodges with a membership of mixed religions it is common to find more than one sacred text displayed. In lodges that follow the Continental tradition other texts may be used, including texts that are non-religious in nature."<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freemasonry#Ritual.2C_symbolism.2C_and_morality<br /><br /><br />So is Freemasonry a religion ?<br />Is AA merely a fraternal organization ?<br /><br />Dawg, a little googling and I think you're on point. We did found our nation on spiritual principles as opposed to Christian ones.<br /><br />I looked up George Washington. He would go to three seperate churches on some Sundays. <br /><br />This spiritual not religious idea has been around for quite a while it seems. <br /><br />Good stuff.<br /><br />MA and the other fanatics will miss it because they're still trying to work out a theory sitting at home safely n their rooms and then trying to force that theory into reality.<br /><br />In a word the anti-AA atheists are religious rather that spiritual. <br /><br />Spirituality seems to imply a willingness to accept the world (natural/supernataural/whatever) exactly as it is and working from there. <br /><br />No theories need be imposed. Just start applying spiritual practices and see what happens.<br /><br />Adjust as necessary.Tony Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06015153103133728577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-44499548456974413852011-12-20T22:47:21.855-07:002011-12-20T22:47:21.855-07:00Yeah, especially Fort Collins to about 8 miles sou...Yeah, especially Fort Collins to about 8 miles south of Colorado Springs.<br /><br />Come on down. You could tour the Westcliffe Wet Mountains area... maybe hit one of our better closed meetings and get a bite to eat.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-89793476817724094332011-12-20T21:00:03.911-07:002011-12-20T21:00:03.911-07:00The beauty of Spirituality is that nobody can tell...The beauty of Spirituality is that nobody can tell me what to think, how to act and what to say. Religion on the other hand is someones conception of God sold to a group of followers. That's what turned me off to begin with. Spirituality was offered by Ebby when he said "Why don't you choose your own conception..." It stuck. From then it's been morphed by the meeting attenders into doorknobs and rocks. I really can't find any monotheistic society that conforms to this idiocy and probably never will. I'' buy the first round for any group of people that made a decision to turn their will and their lives over to a doorknob. I hope they do well. I won't however tell them what to believe. That to me would be "Religious"<br /> Patrick, your car sounds great. Perhaps we could see some video of you boiling the Goodyears off the thing. I do have half a mind to take a bike trip down south sometime this Summer if I can get rid of the wife and kids for a day or two. I'll have to find a back road. I-25 doesn't impress me too much. I hate to meet God before it's time.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162857810066427815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-37366579050626870562011-12-20T19:00:01.816-07:002011-12-20T19:00:01.816-07:00MA :
"Calling religion "spiritual"...MA :<br /><br />"Calling religion "spiritual" is simply a way of making religion more palatable to those who don't want to be considered religious."<br /><br />Either that or it's a way of saying something is 'spiritual' as opposed to 'religious'.<br /><br />Sometimes a cigar is only a cigar.<br />But not very often to a raving alcoholic mind........always looking for the angle.<br /><br />LOL !!!!Tony Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06015153103133728577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-8576276259990085302011-12-20T14:24:51.850-07:002011-12-20T14:24:51.850-07:00Getting your ass excommunicated is one of the nice...Getting your ass excommunicated is one of the nicer things the Catholic Church can do to your ass... no offense intended.<br /><br />When it comes to food and stuff, I consider God to be my provider. But ashes to ashes and dust to dust, it's not good to worship things of the flesh. God also provides me with spititual food.<br /><br />Just as many who come to A.A. are not looking to be fed. Well if your hungry, get your ass up there and eat. One cannot eat for another.<br /><br />Now when I was a child, my older brother used to say, "I want pizza! Pork chops suck!"McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-73496413650408763832011-12-20T14:15:34.297-07:002011-12-20T14:15:34.297-07:00Patrick, Bite your tongue. I'm a Dallas fan......Patrick, Bite your tongue. I'm a Dallas fan....joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-79652274810912100682011-12-20T14:01:30.514-07:002011-12-20T14:01:30.514-07:00Why is it God's job to eradicate famine? He (S...Why is it God's job to eradicate famine? He (She?) created mankind with free will and intelligence. I sort of think humans are quite capable of fixing the famine problem if they would only get their shit together and use the brains that God gave them. <br /><br />As for spirituality and religion, I see a big difference between the two. And if AA is a religion, I'm in deep shit trouble if the Catholic Church finds out. Probably excommunicate my sorry ass or something.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-8828781244759230742011-12-20T13:08:17.751-07:002011-12-20T13:08:17.751-07:00Good points. I think G/[g]od already has solved f...Good points. I think G/[g]od already has solved famine. For fuck's sake, have you not watched Fear Factor lately? People can eat ant snizz, skunk snatch, chocolate coated snake shit... bugs that crawl in sand, etc. In the US of A, we have a 75% obesity rate. An Ethiopian can feed his whole family on one of Oprah's butt-cheeks.<br /><br />Last week, God gave some love to quarterbacks who fuck hot models for a change, so... there's always hope, right?McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-32007298311434515172011-12-20T11:49:56.706-07:002011-12-20T11:49:56.706-07:00Calling religion "spiritual" is simply a...Calling religion "spiritual" is simply a way of making religion more palatable to those who don't want to be considered religious. It's rhetorical lube that helps when the girth of the dogma is too wide to fit up the ass of the recipient.<br /><br />People fall for that shit all the time. Like Wal-Mart cashiers who call themselves "associates." They're still making minimum wage, but somehow it makes them feel better about themselves. Boys don't play with dolls -- they play with action figures. Hell, even creationism is all sciency now with it's fancy new name: intelligent design. It sounds really impressive when the one teaching it is in a lab coat. <br /><br />I'm old school, so I call anything with a sacred text that relies on divine intervention a religion. Not that AA isn't different than groups like Muslims, whose god tends to fixate on slapping down infidels; or the Jerry Falwell types whose god fixates on ridding the world of homos and such. Have you seen that snake church? Google that one. Those folks are krazy with capital "K." I guess their god's focus is snakes. But I digress.<br /><br />AA's god's specialty is, of course, spiritualizing alkies. That's too narrow of a focus for my taste. Show me a god who can multitask - like fixing alcoholism AND famine - and then I'd be more inclined to join his group. If he could also get rid of Tebow, that would be even better. It'd also be nice if we weren't called a religion, either. Maybe a "philosophical round table" or "hee-man women haters club." That would be shweeeeeeet. <br /><br />Hope all of you have a Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, Crazy Kwanzwaa, or Sectaular Secularity (whichever applies).MAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06577571051554788069noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-81009618429904249802011-12-20T08:40:17.241-07:002011-12-20T08:40:17.241-07:00" I know many will argue that A.A. was genera..." I know many will argue that A.A. was generally based on Christianity. I don't buy it. I also hear the same garbage about the forming of the US of A. To me, our great nation was formed on Spiritual Principles, not religious dogma."<br /><br />Well.....now......<br /><br />A bunch of people go sick of the Catholic Church around about 1500. <br />They had their points. <br /><br />Between the Protestant notion of an individual relationship with God outside of any organized religion and Masonic influence some of our basic principles of both AA and the US of A were passed on. <br /><br />Don't get me wrong, I love being a Catholic.<br />It's a rich traditon.<br />But tradition and being a part of a 'church' does not a meaningful relationship with a higher power make.<br /><br />Once you have that relationship an organized religion can help you grow in ways AA never will. But it's much better to sit in AA WITH a relationship than go to church every day without it. The former will get you sober, the later will make you a boring, religious drunk.<br />IMHO, of course.<br /><br />Giants are screwing around.<br />I had to turn that game off.<br />You need to come to play when you're fighting for a playoff spot and they just plain didn't.<br /><br />The Jets....well, they're the Jets.Tony Jhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06015153103133728577noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-44989999876631842282011-12-19T10:48:03.459-07:002011-12-19T10:48:03.459-07:00Cuda, have you seen my Chrysler vid and pics? I t...Cuda, have you seen my Chrysler vid and pics? I think they're in the Oct 2 Off Topic thread. Wondered what ya think of my tuneup.<br /><br />Rob, funny you mention the "Religious folks are afraid of going to Hell and us spiritual fucks have already been there and don't want to go back" chant. Someone actually said that shit right in that meeting and they thought they were clever for spouting it. My main problem with these folks is that they are the ones with "time". Oh, and congrats to your team on the win. Guess Tebow is human after all. Maybe we won't get the hype crammed down our throats so much this next week.<br /><br />Colter, hope you're having a nice holidays.<br /><br />Jim... if you're taking time away from your FB project, I hope all is well with you. Haven't heard much on the relationship front. Hope all is well with you two... whether geographically closer or not. Either way that goes/went, may you both maintain your autonomy and solid sobriety and spirituality. Congrats to your locale's football team... the 7-7 Seagulls. They're still with a pulse.<br /><br />Joe... don't know if you're a football fan... but your Skins upset the G-men... again, and your Ratbirds dumped one to the late-starting Chargers. But the later team seems to still control its own destiny.<br /><br />Tony... your NY teams sucked it up this last week as well as my Broncos. Condolences.<br /><br />Happy Kwanza, Happy Hanukkah, and Merry Christmas to some of us and Happy Festivus to the rest of us.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-22946237798954983142011-12-19T10:10:20.818-07:002011-12-19T10:10:20.818-07:00"Belief fixates, faith liberates".
Uran..."Belief fixates, faith liberates".<br /><br />Urantia Book 1955<br /><br />ColterColterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17394584466042799024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-41919001675796198812011-12-18T19:11:31.660-07:002011-12-18T19:11:31.660-07:00If this was SR, some slogan spouting zombie would ...If this was SR, some slogan spouting zombie would surely tell you "Religon is to save people from hell, spirituality is for those of us who have been there". Drop this little pearl of bullshit at a meeting and see how many nods and admiring looks you receive.<br /><br />My take on religion and spirituality is very similar to a Venn Diagram, there are many folks who consider themselves to be Christian who say they are spiritual as well, they are the intersection of the two circles. I consider myself a mystic, open to all religious practices but tied to none (with the exception of Scientology which I personally think is ridiculous).<br />PAtrick is right, religion or spiritual all boils down to a solid step one experience, if I have something I can do to stay sober without these, I am probably not alcoholic in the way the book describes.Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-42739487554890391632011-12-18T12:45:10.834-07:002011-12-18T12:45:10.834-07:00It's hard to imagine how adamantly opposed to ...It's hard to imagine how adamantly opposed to God some people are. It's also hard to remember that I wore the same pair of shoes at one time. I was opposed to God as a direct result of the conception of God that was sold to me by Organized Religion. No other reason than I was lied to and sold some unrealistic expectations of God.<br />I was expecting a man sitting on a throne. This man donned a white robe with a golden rope belt. His hair was long and grey as was his beard. No wonder I couldn't find God. I had been looking for Zeus all this time. As a result of a lie sold to so many.Karlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02162857810066427815noreply@blogger.com