tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post5970217537956389210..comments2023-09-16T05:02:33.288-06:00Comments on McGowdoghouse: SOME THOUGHTS....McGowdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comBlogger65125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-77862607076559720052011-02-06T09:23:56.276-07:002011-02-06T09:23:56.276-07:00I've had some great discussions online and hav...I've had some great discussions online and have met some great people I probably would have never met. However, it doesn't beat f2f.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-35090739391237710452011-02-06T08:46:03.005-07:002011-02-06T08:46:03.005-07:00I gotta go with Patrick on the f2f thing. I can ge...I gotta go with Patrick on the f2f thing. I can get some guys talking this shit outside a meeting, but they'll never take the time to get involved in any serious blog discussions. Too much effort. Remember, thinking is painful for some people. <br /><br />The best way to get others into these "discussions" is probably via Google. Like I said, McGowdoghouse gets a lot of hits. McGowdog even more, but that guy is a real publicity hound. Comes from living out of whack from the mainstream....Freudian thing. See Psychological Experience in his new post.<br /><br />90 hour weeks. Shit. I did more than that for 17 years when I owned a restaurant. Which may answer a whole lotta questions. You're right, Ralph, retirement is good. I can go to meetings or not. Mostly I choose to go. Fortunate to have a lot of meetings around here, and some are pretty damn good. <br /><br />And Dowg, there's always Skype. I see your address on my list of contacts. That way if you go off on a rant and throw an ashtray, worst thing that'll happen is my screen will go blank.<br /><br />Carry on.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-81336995175682644032011-02-05T23:35:07.727-07:002011-02-05T23:35:07.727-07:00Maybe my life is out of whack here from the mainst...Maybe my life is out of whack here from the mainstream.<br /><br />I'd like to hear others' input on this... but they may be spending more of their current time in the f2f world.<br /><br />Oh, that darned word again. f2f= face to face.<br /><br />90 hour work weeks! That's not work, that's slavery. Glad you're now free of that.<br /><br />I'm free from having to go to more than a couple of meetings or a meeting a week. Of this I am proud.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-77492643971549758532011-02-05T23:01:07.062-07:002011-02-05T23:01:07.062-07:00hmmm...
I was thinking not so much about recovery,...hmmm...<br />I was thinking not so much about recovery, perhaps, but about new ideas. I'm surprised about your conclusions, but really have no experience to contradict them.<br />What do you mean by the "f2f" world? (remember, I'm from a different time)!<br />Be careful not to burn out with all you're doing here plus in the rooms, working, family life, etc. You're only human, and many recovering alkies seem to overlook that. I did, and 90 hour work weeks eventually knocked me down good.<br />Enjoying my retirement now, even with all the problems that "old" age brings; loss of family and friends through death, reduced income, whatnot... freedom from the ratrace and lots of personal time are valuable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-44353192802176486202011-02-05T22:37:32.525-07:002011-02-05T22:37:32.525-07:00uhhh... I hate to be a Debbie Downer to your plans...uhhh... I hate to be a Debbie Downer to your plans and hopes but... my face to face peeps would think this internet recovery stuff was a ridiculous waste of time. I've hinted to a few of my A.A. peeps some of these forums and even my blog and it's been met with absolutely nothing... no comments, no positive or negative criticism... nothing. I just don't think they find the time for it.<br /><br />Only a certain percentage of us live in this cyber world. Not for this stuff anyway. The few peeps that I know on here seem as real to me as it gets though... and I'd like to know you folks in the f2f world if given the chance. I've spoken to most of you over the phone by now. I came close to meeting with Joe when I was in Charlottesville Virginia... just didn't have the time to break away from the work to do so.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-49285241246035141742011-02-05T21:41:39.711-07:002011-02-05T21:41:39.711-07:00Hello, Jim (and everyone else):
I liked the story ...Hello, Jim (and everyone else):<br />I liked the story about Ireland; seems that AA accomplished there what many of the churches could not!<br />I had a crazy temper like yours, and actually once threw an ashtray myself at a guy who had really insulted me at a coffeehouse. Tackled him an instant later, and it took 3 or 4 people to pull me off him before I pounded him into the floor. I hit him so hard and so many times that my right hand was useless for work for four days. Very bad scene, and it should have been a wakeup call for me that just quitting drinking might not be enough...if I didn't work on my other faults, I was essentially just the same S.O.B. as I often was when drunk!<br />That's where the spiritual part of AA is useful, at least as I understand it. It wasn't what I needed to get sober, but it could have been helpful in staying sober and being a kinder, more human person had I stuck around and worked on my character defects. <br />I still believe though, that character strengths should be included in any inventory, so they can counterbalance the defects and possibly be developed.<br />It occurred to me earlier that this thread is a meeting of sorts in itself. Have you thought of passing out this blog's address (with McGowdog's approval) to others that you see at meetings, so they could join in these discussions? If they pass the news along to still others they know in other meetings, this blog could find hundreds of contributors showing up in a very short time! <br />I truly believe that people will amaze you and will never let you down in the long run if you just let them contribute what their hearts tell them to.<br />Take care,<br />Ralph (formerly the rotten red cat)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-47032563976047266992011-02-05T08:40:34.615-07:002011-02-05T08:40:34.615-07:00Hey Ralph, I might add that I promise that I won&#...Hey Ralph, I might add that I promise that I won't throw an ash tray at you if you disagree with me or piss me off. <br /><br />Those days are long gone. I still have a temper, but my emotional nature doesn't run me anymore.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-54576771436022479982011-02-04T23:49:43.007-07:002011-02-04T23:49:43.007-07:00Ralph, you bringing up the topic of the folks at S...Ralph, you bringing up the topic of the folks at ST claiming that A.A. meetings are a dangerous place brings this to mind:<br /><br />During the "troubles" in northern Ireland, Catholics & Protestants were known to actually leave their weapons at the door and go inside and peacefully have an A.a. meeting, maybe even pray together.<br /><br />I've seen a few chairs thrown and tables flipped at he local hall here. Hell, when I was a few months sober I winged a heavy glass ashtray across the room at a guy that said something that pissed me off. No worse than your usual bar brawl.<br /><br />Here's how I see how A.A. (the fellowship) could evolve. It could start living by the principles that we already have. Individuals could actually do the steps and make them a way of living. Then you would have groups of individuals who have recovered and are living a spiritual way of life. These groups could actually put the principles embodied in the Traditions and Concepts into use. Then we would have healthy, growing, vital groups. If anything, I think A.A. (the fellowship) has devolved into what it is now and is continuing to whither. Like I have said before, who cares if the FTG's and the MA's and the Oranges and the Stanton Peeles take potshots at A.A? They aren't the ones who are killing A.A. It is rotting from within.<br /><br />Change or die, Don P. always said. That goes for the group as well as the individual. Grow or go.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-80016151899007234552011-02-04T21:57:51.716-07:002011-02-04T21:57:51.716-07:00Hello to all!
I'm just getting in after anothe...Hello to all!<br />I'm just getting in after another silent visit to Stinkin Thinkin. I was struck by the difference between that forum and yours; the negativity and hatred shown between posters on ST, compared to the civility and respect here. <br />I cannot imagine what an actual physical meeting of the posters from ST would be like, but would certainly wear body armor if I had to attend one (heck, there would probably only be just the one meeting).<br />One of ST's favorite claims is that AA is a "dangerous place to be". Gunthar happily reported that a man who was court-ordered into AA in 1992 and was eventually arrested for a murder in 2010, "proves" that AA is a hazard to the health of anyone attending meetings. <br />Haven't the folks at ST ever followed the media stories about school and workplace shootings, or the routine drug-related killings in every city in our country?<br />The truth is, there are no "safe" places these days, if there ever were. <br />McGowdog: I didn't know you were in Rochester, but I haven't lived in that city for many, many years. It's about twice the size of Pueblo, and has averaged about 40 to 50 homicides a year for decades. That's just the actual killings, not the simple shootings, stabbings, etc. It is unsafe to drive around anywhere at night, and only a little better in the daytime. <br />Yet, there have only been a very few fistfights only that I have heard about that could be associated with AA meetings, and those were all outside the meeting rooms. Just the usual scuffles over injured feelings, with very minor injuries to the participants.<br />BTW: ST's latest brainstorm is to perhaps get a blog call-in show to promote their agenda (and no doubt FTG's upcoming book), and I cannot help think what an easy, stationary target AA has become for people like those as long as it resists all change. Where is the "evolution" that others here have stated that Bill W. called for?<br />"If it works don't fix it" doesn't mean one should eliminate preventive maintenance!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-32437806602009876052011-02-04T18:08:42.431-07:002011-02-04T18:08:42.431-07:00Ralph! I did a job out in Rochester several years...Ralph! I did a job out in Rochester several years ago.<br /><br />Check out some of my pics at www.city-data.com/forum under the same username.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-5055528937606956282011-02-04T12:03:31.955-07:002011-02-04T12:03:31.955-07:00I'm sure the bible is fine... if passed down a...I'm sure the bible is fine... if passed down and written properly... and if taken in the proper context. Most don't.<br /><br />Jesus did.<br /><br />I think A.A. is A-ok and needs no change.<br /><br />It folks would spend 2 minutes doing something and 2 minutes less pissing and moaning, it might workMcGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-63374213093343168522011-02-04T08:49:47.575-07:002011-02-04T08:49:47.575-07:00Hi Ralph,
I don't think you are unique in your...Hi Ralph,<br />I don't think you are unique in your experience. In fact, your initial experience is not that much different than mine. I had the attitude of if there is a God he certainly hasn't done anything for me. That evolved into "God can and will is sought." Or rather "God better can or I'm fucked." You see, I was at a place of total surrender. I knew that I was hopeless and it didn't matter what I had to do or where I had to go. My sponsor told me that we don't know how to surrender to God, so we surrender to the process, and that's what I did. I took the simple position outlined in Step 3. That simple idea has evolved into something beyond conception. These days I'm more interested in consciousness than conception. I spoke on Monday night and I made the statement that after twenty years, I'm not so sure that I believe in God. Some eyebrows were raised by that remark. I went on to say that it goes beyond belief, it is too big for that. More of an experience than an idea.<br /><br />Ralph, your pieced together program obviously worked for you, and I'm glad for that. I may be an orthodox by-the-book AA, but I'm not inflexible or rigid enough to deny you the right to be sober and happy in your own way. In fact, if I apply the 12 Traditions and 12 Concepts to my life, I can't not let you be happy in your own way.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-1529703609620979332011-02-03T22:31:00.466-07:002011-02-03T22:31:00.466-07:00Jim:
I wouldn't change the eleventh step unde...Jim: <br />I wouldn't change the eleventh step under any circumstances! It perfectly sums up my belief in God! <br />The problem is that when I first came into AA (court-ordered) that step and several others really turned me off. I thought I was an atheist, conveniently forgetting all the prayers and promises and deals I had made with God in the "greybar hotel" that they had just released me from! I was that spiritually sick, as were so many others in my situation. The 12 steps were all that AA had, and they just couldn't work for me, because of my mindset. So, I worked my own pieced-together program, which consisted of strenuous physical workouts, Antabuse, and the help of many others (my family, doctors, the law, and the companionship of some friends in AA).<br />Please don't misunderstand me and think that I see no value at all in AA. I just wasn't able to be receptive to its' message. <br />Today I have made my peace with God, but still don't expect Him to do for me what I can do for myself. I don't even expect Him to do for me what I can't do for myself, but suspect that He might have done just that from time to time.<br />BTW, McGowdog: I really liked your photos of Pueblo when I looked at them some time ago, but failed to say so. I have been called a "serious amateur" photographer, and have even done some work on behalf of Eastman Kodak. I am getting back into 35mm (!) as of late, and the resolution and color of that format is something I had forgotten. Have you tried it yourself?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-83652506612271432902011-02-03T22:18:14.106-07:002011-02-03T22:18:14.106-07:00Ralph, The Big Book was never intended to be a &qu...Ralph, The Big Book was never intended to be a "one size fits all" approach to alcoholism. Bill W. repeatedly said that AA doesn't have a monopoly on sobriety. He wrote the Big Book as A program, not THE program. He put together something that worked for him (at first, just helping another alcoholic) and expanded that into the program as we know it today. <br /><br />I'm in AA because it's the only fucking thing that's worked for me. That's why we're all in it. If something else had worked, or if I was able to stop drinking by sheer will power, I wouldn't be sitting here typing this tonight. The Big Book only describes one solution because it IS only one solution. It's not a fucking encyclopedia of sobriety. It's one way. Not the only way, just one.<br /><br />Yeah, AA has to change. We all agree on that. How and how much we may not agree upon. There's other stuff going on out there, and we should be aware of it. Does it mean forgo the steps, change the 164, or dilute the program into pap and pronouncements? Fuck no! <br /><br />Bill said that AA had to evolve or it would die. Evolution means change, but more in the growth of the program than in the revision of it. AA can evolve without losing it's set of core values. Other people are doing some good things in the field of alcoholism treatment. Let's take the blinders off and look at what they're doing. Maybe we can learn something. Let AA grow.<br /><br />I need to know everything I can learn about an alcoholic walking in the doors. What other issues does he have? We're seeing shit now (or at least recognizing it) that we didn't see 30 years ago. Cross addictions like Pathological Gambling, Sex Addiction, mental disorders. This shit will interfere with recovery unless it's recognized and dealt with. I'd like to know some of this stuff if I sponsor a guy. Maybe I can help him and maybe he needs a lot more that AA can give him. But unless I understand whether or not he's got other problems, I can't do a decent job as a sponsor. I need a picture of the whole man if I can get it. The only way I'm going to recognize issues other than alcoholism is be being educated about them.<br /><br />Do I believe that no human power could have relieved me of my alcoholism? Yes, I believe that. That's why I'm in AA. But you can still be in AA without accepting it. The steps are "suggested as a program of recovery." It's not fucking dogma. Why is that so fucking hard for so many people to understand? We offer a program that's worked for us. It's that simple. One alcoholic helping another. And the theological issues? Not gonna go there.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-53728548275117291372011-02-03T21:40:43.258-07:002011-02-03T21:40:43.258-07:00I don't believe that Alcoholics Anonymous pret...I don't believe that Alcoholics Anonymous pretends to be "the solution" for alcoholism or for all alcoholics. I know that quite a few of the members are arrogant enough to state that it is the only way. I know that the 12 Step path isn't for everyone and I'm for any approach that will help an alcoholic recover, whatever that may be. I don't claim to have "the" answer, but I have an answer and I don't believe that there is a right way and wrong way to get sober and stay sober. But I believe that there is a best way for some of us and that way is laid out in the 12 Steps.<br /><br />As for the book not addressing the physical & mental aspects of alcoholism, it does address those aspects. It addresses them in simple "Little Red Hen Language," not in medical terms. All an alcoholic needs to know to make peace with himself as to whether he is alcoholic or not is "Can I control the amount I take once I start?" and "Can I stay away from booze when the need arises?" I consider myself fairly well educated in the field, but to get technical when working with newly sober alcoholics serves no purpose. It is academic, useless information. Simply put, I have a body that can't drink and left untreated, a mind that always drinks.<br /><br />Myself, when I think of reforming A.A., I'm not thinking of changing the program of recovery. I'm thinking of the fellowship itself. But, as I have said before, I think it has gone too far. The fellowship as it is known today can fall of the face of the earth and I'll be OK. I have a book and I know where there are some drunks in this town.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-3040628102593193932011-02-03T21:17:50.966-07:002011-02-03T21:17:50.966-07:00I was JOKING about "finding good servants&quo...I was JOKING about "finding good servants", guys! It's an old comedians line, so you probably haven't heard it before. I am just a retired carpenter, so I couldn't afford any kind of servant anyway (and wouldn't want one if I could)!<br />McGowdog, putting the Big Book on the same level with the Bible has been a cause of a lot of justified criticism of AA. It pushes AA across the fine line between spirituality and religion. As far as the Old Testament goes, there are parts of it (the so-called historical section) that I don't pay much heed to, but still would never discard them. Remember, this is the same gospel that Jesus studied so well. It was His interpretation of Tanach that got Him on the rabbi's *hit list.<br />On the Big Book: one problem that I have with it is that it prescribes one solution only (the 12 steps) for all alcoholics, regardless of the severity of their disease, or their basic personalities, including spiritual makeup. <br />"One size fits all" very often means "one size fits no one very well". <br />Another problem is that it doesn't really address the mental and physical aspects of alcohol addiction. <br />I think that you may be just spinning your wheels if you want to reform AA without changing any of it; in my opinion it simply can't be done.<br />Separating wheat from chaff is what life is all about. Start with the idea that "no human power could have relieved our alcoholism" - you still believe that today? Yet, I would have to listen to that actual statement if I were to attend an AA meeting tomorrow. <br />I told you that I am regarded as a heretic, but then so was Martin Luther and a good many others. I see AA today as needing reform as much as the RC church of the middle ages needed reform (and still does, as well as many other churches).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-2901619376364046622011-02-03T20:01:30.872-07:002011-02-03T20:01:30.872-07:00"As you all well know, the New Testament buil..."As you all well know, the New Testament built upon the Old Testament without changing a word of it, but instead fulfilled it's original purpose."<br /><br />Well, I may go straight to hell for saying this... but I'm of the belief that the New Testament is a pretty good book... as in integris and true...right up there with the A.A. book. But, the Old Testament is ... as a whole... bullshit. Take Genesis and a couple of other portions of it and throw the rest out. Man-made bullshit or something. <br /><br />"(hard to get good servants these days)"<br /><br />Well as the A.A. book says... "To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him."<br /><br />Now the Carpenter Himself... now there was a Servant!<br /><br />If you want service, learn to serve. If you pray potatoes, reach for the hoe.<br /><br />I love the 164... but I'm still kind of iffy about some of the last four chapters. I'm starting to become more open-minded about that though.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-82760552936399738902011-02-03T17:15:08.587-07:002011-02-03T17:15:08.587-07:00Just Googled Mcgowdoghouse and got over 800 hits, ...Just Googled Mcgowdoghouse and got over 800 hits, and Mcgowgog had over 9000. There's an audience out there....joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-53406109453147839382011-02-03T17:10:26.896-07:002011-02-03T17:10:26.896-07:00Yeah, the Big Book is best left alone. It was just...Yeah, the Big Book is best left alone. It was just an idea I threw out but the more I think about it the more I conclude that the answer lies elsewhere. A separate book is probably the best solution.<br /><br />As Jim brought up, the biggest problem would be separating the wheat from the chaff. New stuff is being discovered every day. Shit makes the headlines and then disappears. So what's appropriate and what's not? <br /><br />I think that the more technical aspect of alcoholism, addiction etc. (genetics, brain chemistry, and so on) would be of little value to the average AA member. And that's the shit that changes every day, too, so it would be hard to keep up with. But information about dual addictions, mental health issues co-occurring with alcoholism, successes in other treatment programs, and so on may be some topics worth addressing. There are probably a shitload more.<br /><br />But what vehicle is the best to get this stuff on the streets? How about a website? Maybe a blog? Shit, I come across reference to this blog a lot when I Google some specifics about alcoholism or AA.<br /><br />If we started talking about some of the stuff I mentioned and attracted others to the discussion from Google, that would be a start. There's always the problem of assholes from Orange etc. attacking rather than discussing, but we could handle that. But we'd start getting ideas out there on the street and that's always a good thing. <br /><br />Maybe this should be in the form of a new post. Should Macdowghouse be the cutting edge? I dunno. But I'll throw it out there for comments.<br />Hmmmmmmm.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-86573793423496947022011-02-03T08:30:02.602-07:002011-02-03T08:30:02.602-07:00I'm going to have to part ways here about the ...I'm going to have to part ways here about the amending of the book. Do you guys want to know where Narcotics Anonymous went wrong? They took something simple and decided that their "program" should be special. They basically reinvented the wheel and complicated the hell out of it. <br /><br />I don't many of the stories in the 4th edition. But the basic text is the same. Now, I won't own a 4th edition, but not because of the stories. I won't own it because of the circumstances under which it was printed.<br /><br />As for being educated concerning the more recent discoveries about alcoholism, addiction, and mental illness, I'm all for it. There is plenty of material out there, but it is a matter of sifting the wheat from the chaff. <br /><br />I guess what I'm saying, is that it is up to us as individuals to become more informed because people pit their lives in our hands on a daily basis.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-24046689382220678422011-02-02T22:09:51.534-07:002011-02-02T22:09:51.534-07:00I like Joe Cool's idea of amending the Big Boo...I like Joe Cool's idea of amending the Big Book - it's far better than mine about rewriting it! <br />Leaving the original 164 pages in front, and adding new pages after would create a book similar to the Bible in layout. <br />As you all well know, the New Testament built upon the Old Testament without changing a word of it, but instead fulfilled it's original purpose.<br />And since the New Testament was created from the works of several authors over a period of a few decades, the newer Big Book could be done by several authors over the years.<br />Since AAWS would probably not OK any additions or alterations to the Big Book at this time, a separate book by an independent publisher would be necessary.<br />This collection of writings or articles could be electronic, audio, CD-ROM, DVD-ROM, or plain old paper.<br />I'm just brainstorming here, so of course I'll need plenty of help (heh, heh)!<br />So long for now; I've gotta rest before cleaning even more snow from my walks and driveway (hard to get good servants these days).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-15553823010867261322011-02-02T13:00:14.239-07:002011-02-02T13:00:14.239-07:00Yeah, I even want to hear about some non-AA recove...Yeah, I even want to hear about some non-AA recoveries and why they work... aka what's good about them.<br /><br />If there was one point the Orange crowd made that would have me wondering if they had our best interest at hand, it would be in the claim that abstinence might lead some to a worse fall. Is this the AA camp that's claimed this or the harms reductions camp?<br /><br />Anywho, another topic for discussion.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-87898544252097478212011-02-02T10:48:37.067-07:002011-02-02T10:48:37.067-07:00Hey Ralph, Come on over. McDowdog said true in t...Hey Ralph, Come on over. McDowdog said true in that we're all not necessarily in agreement sometimes, but we're all focused on sobriety and telling others what worked for us. <br /><br />I like the arguments as they reflect that we're a group of guys who aren't slaves to a particular way of thinking. We all believe in AA, but are not blinded to it's philosophy. We see recognize what's good in AA and what's not so good. We learn by listening to each others viewpoints.<br /><br />Hey Patrick, I'd love to have folks who aren't necessarily in the same lane as we are join up. Let's talk rather than stay in the attacks/defend mode. Lets listen to suggestions for improving what we do. Let's talk alternatives when we discuss a particular issue. Constructive criticism is a good thing. <br />We have a philosophy of "agree to disagree" which you won't find anywhere else. <br /><br />Ralph has a good idea - plant a mustard seed and maybe start getting different perspectives. We do that and maybe we'll start attracting more followers, people who are interested in the AA program but not the pissing contests generated by Orange et.al. That way we can focus on solutions, which is what we should be doing anyway.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-89013786943441681662011-02-01T22:29:56.832-07:002011-02-01T22:29:56.832-07:00Thanks, McGowdog, I may well take you up on your o...Thanks, McGowdog, I may well take you up on your offer.<br />I am not absolutely against ALL censorship; there are cases where posts just beg to be deleted, and their writers blocked from further posting. Sort of like the old saw about crying "Fire!" in a crowded theater..<br />just so long as fairness is the rule in the usage of censorship, I'm OK with it. That wasn't the case with Tony J over at ST, and I couldn't tolerate that.<br />Maybe if you could think of your site as a seed (mustard, maybe?) you would get a slightly different perspective of what you're doing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-81424578133620486302011-02-01T18:56:33.698-07:002011-02-01T18:56:33.698-07:00Thanks Ralph! I just passed the General, air brak...Thanks Ralph! I just passed the General, air brakes, and combination vehicles test. Don't need the hazmat.<br /><br />Nice to hear some nice comments about the blog. The authors here have found the A.A. method to work and are not necessarily in agreement with what's become of A.A. But we've all found our place in recovery and have found some niche in this altruistic obligation of showing those willing to try what we've found.<br /><br />Ralph, if you have a gmail account, go to my profile and send me your email and I'll make you a author... where you can post your own topics here. Not the fanciest blog by a longshot. But it's here to serve some of us that have been cast out, banned, and edited. I can't say I haven't censored here before. I don't like being called names and stuff, but to leave the rants of our adversaries up seems even more effective. Whenever I get off the path there are folks here who let me know when I'm being an asshole. As I go along on this avocation, I'll better know how to listen to our critics and sort out what's valid and what's just intolerance.<br /><br />Good to have you here. It's been kind of slow in here, but we are growing ever so slowly. We are not a popularity contest for sure.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.com