tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post769589158147101558..comments2023-09-16T05:02:33.288-06:00Comments on McGowdoghouse: So are you still Powerless... or are you now Powerful?McGowdoghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-69982476018877461902011-08-28T22:55:53.012-06:002011-08-28T22:55:53.012-06:00Good to be back with you guys Joe. I don't kno...Good to be back with you guys Joe. I don't know how much I will be able to actually post because I have a lot going on.<br /><br />Prayers going out for your cousin Patrick and for you & the family as well. All of the sudden family has became very important to me. The first of the month I found out that I have a half-sister, four nieces, a nephew, and a bunch of great nieces and nephews I never knew I had. There has been a lot of healing going on but there is much yet to do and it has become obvious to me that my role is that of the facilitator, if you will.<br /><br />I'll try to touch base here every few days.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-28274743440546351882011-08-28T21:27:51.260-06:002011-08-28T21:27:51.260-06:00Never felt the earthquake. The hurricane was much ...Never felt the earthquake. The hurricane was much ado about nothing. Lots of rain here and some wind, but no real local damage. The pond and lake temps took s a dive and the oxygen levels went way up, so bass fishing today was awesome.<br /><br />Nice you're back with us, Jim.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-19070359064026091792011-08-28T20:52:25.584-06:002011-08-28T20:52:25.584-06:00Some of us could have used some of that rain. Loo...Some of us could have used some of that rain. Looks like North Carolina got the worst of it?McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-1436259888727762152011-08-28T18:50:57.330-06:002011-08-28T18:50:57.330-06:00The hurricane rolled through the east coast today,...The hurricane rolled through the east coast today, my area was hit minimally, big rain and heavy winds but no significant damage.Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-28947247156245255902011-08-28T18:01:25.763-06:002011-08-28T18:01:25.763-06:00Hope Joe's ok with the Apocalyptic activity in...Hope Joe's ok with the Apocalyptic activity in his backyard.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-68705237615021485762011-08-28T11:13:46.256-06:002011-08-28T11:13:46.256-06:00Good to see you again Jim.
Prayers for my cousin ...Good to see you again Jim.<br /><br />Prayers for my cousin Linda if you get time. She's suffering bad cancer throughout her body and the radiation didn't seem to help. I'm going out to see her now before work.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-3188901491993239672011-08-28T00:11:31.398-06:002011-08-28T00:11:31.398-06:00Hey Guys,
Thought I'd poke my nose in here. O...Hey Guys, <br />Thought I'd poke my nose in here. Over the last month I've had a lot going on, all good stuff, but a major upheaval has taken place and rearranged my life.<br /><br />Now about choice. I have not had to consciously make a choice to drink or to not drink in almost twenty-one years. If it was about making a choice, you would think that I would have made the wrong choice at least once.<br /><br />As for wanting to or having to, there is no wanting or having to anymore. In active alcoholism, I have to drink and I need to drink. And I drink whether I want to or not. In active alcoholism there is no choice but to drink, In the Sunlight of the Spirit, there is no choice to drink because the problem has been removed.<br /><br />Period. That's all there is to it.Jimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00211168798498974739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-40193131295861337112011-08-24T14:19:13.273-06:002011-08-24T14:19:13.273-06:00In a word?
Faith.In a word?<br /><br />Faith.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-16339763320225276702011-08-23T20:21:17.633-06:002011-08-23T20:21:17.633-06:00And it's that lack of need, those new ideals t...And it's that lack of need, those new ideals that Rob refers to, the removal of the problems that made us drink in the first place, the spiritual awakening and all that came with it - these are the reasons we don't drink today. I like to call it sobriety.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-49552825183175621322011-08-23T15:27:30.161-06:002011-08-23T15:27:30.161-06:00Just got back from 3 days in the woods camping and...Just got back from 3 days in the woods camping and hiking, can't say I missed my computer while I was away, but it is nice to back.<br /><br />I like what Patrick had to say, I say a lot, there is nothing going on inside me that a drink could fix. I drink for the effect it produces, same reason I do steps and try to live by spiritual principals.<br /><br /> I'm not drinking, because the reason I was drinking in the 1st place has been replaced by a new set of ideals. I'm not drinking because I don't have to. It's not about wanting or not wanting. AA is not a place I go anymore, it's a prescribed specific way of living outside the halls.Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-14168605418971561652011-08-22T20:23:43.290-06:002011-08-22T20:23:43.290-06:00I say that the removal of low energy states, or th...I say that the removal of low energy states, or the reduction/removal of states such as shame guilt apathy grief fear desire anger and pride bring us to a place where we can feel the "high" states that have already been available to our conscious being.<br /><br />In other words, we don't have to get "high" to feel high.<br /><br />Instead, we eeked it out with hard work via the steps via courage, neutrality, acceptance, reason love, etc...<br /><br />Acceptance comes about for us through forgiveness. We get forgiveness by doing 4 through 9.<br /><br />So when the "problem" gets removed, good stuff replaces it and we don't want to drink.<br /><br />That's how I look at it.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-36379330599632235352011-08-22T15:36:01.876-06:002011-08-22T15:36:01.876-06:00OK, let me ask this question. If you do not have a...OK, let me ask this question. If you do not have a choice as to drink or not, in other words that choice has been taken from you, then why aren't you drinking? <br /><br />How has the problem been removed other than we now have the power to choose whether to drink or not? Before step one, we didn't have this choice. I contend that the problem has been removed solely because we now have the power of choice.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-59173576319510756682011-08-20T19:38:48.300-06:002011-08-20T19:38:48.300-06:00If it does not exist, what am I not choosing?
Now...If it does not exist, what am I not choosing?<br /><br />Now there's some spiritual Kung-fu right there.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-57480520213981519042011-08-20T19:02:12.575-06:002011-08-20T19:02:12.575-06:00Good Responses guys, thought provoking to say the ...Good Responses guys, thought provoking to say the least.<br /><br />I'm down with the reborn part,still not buying the choice idea. I am pretty familiar with the basic text, If it talks about us getting choice back, please point this out, I have missed it.<br /><br />I'm still holding to my guns of the 10 step promise that The problem has been removed. If it does not exist, what am I not choosing?Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-30281137006937989462011-08-20T17:22:06.816-06:002011-08-20T17:22:06.816-06:00Yeah, the obsession doesn't hit us when we'...Yeah, the obsession doesn't hit us when we're doing backstrokes in ecstasy, it happens when we're sweatin' our balls off and we're thirsty.<br /><br />Now, had you followed that obsession a little further, you might have cowboyed up and looked to see if there was a whole suitcase handy.<br /><br />The other day, I saw three guys heading from the liquor store into the back of their RV, each carrying a case of beer. The two front guys had the 30 case and the last guy had the 18. I figured... oh, designated driver!McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-48125136203223278892011-08-20T15:35:13.111-06:002011-08-20T15:35:13.111-06:00Patrick. Was that Colorado smack you were talkin a...Patrick. Was that Colorado smack you were talkin at me? I gotta give you cowboys some lessons.<br /><br />To answer Rob's question, is it possible that my choice is unconscious most of the time, and that God is guiding this decision? Yep, I think that's a lot of it. As we go further along the path, the narrower it gets but the easier it becomes in certain ways. Like choices being ingrained into our brains that we no longer consider them as choices.<br /><br />Except on that occasion, as happened a few weeks back when I was laying 250 sq ft of ceramic tile on my daughter's porch. It was 102 that day, and I opened her refer to get a cold soda. There on the door was a tall, frosty Heineken, dripping with condensation. For a very brief flash, a mere microsecond, the thought entered my mind. Damn! That looks good. No one is around.....And I reached for the soda laughing.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-47694879740941791162011-08-20T12:43:57.109-06:002011-08-20T12:43:57.109-06:00OK, you sematics people!
You win!
We'll chan...OK, you sematics people!<br /><br />You win!<br /><br />We'll change the A.A. book now!<br /><br />To suit yous.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-32305910298830729922011-08-20T10:22:50.988-06:002011-08-20T10:22:50.988-06:00After we are "reborn", the new person ha...After we are "reborn", the new person has a choice that did not exist for the old person.<br /><br /><br />ColterColterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17394584466042799024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-62768990049836699682011-08-19T20:59:11.998-06:002011-08-19T20:59:11.998-06:00I was thinking in terms of my recent experience ab...I was thinking in terms of my recent experience about this since this last smack-talking post of mine to Joe... knowing he's a good sport.<br /><br />I've yet to hit an obsession or a blank spot since my last drunk. I don't even get into those situations anymore it seems...where I have to even turn down a drink. I really have not been given the opportunity to turn down a drug in a LONG time. There was a time when this wouldn't have been so. The last time I had to be subjected to someone taking drugs was when I was on a floor install some years ago.<br /><br />But for instance, I was at a bar last night waiting for some burgers I ordered for takeout. I sat comfortably watching the sports channel watching the cook and the bar tender/waitress do their thing. Right before my order was up, the gal asked me, "Would you like a water while you wait hon?" I said no thanks. It was like she somehow knew. IDK how it all works.<br /><br />It's like asking Don Juan Matus, "So, what would you do if you were driving your car and under a bridge, some guy was shooting everybody who crossed?" He said, "I wouldn't be there."McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-27595829195443704152011-08-19T20:13:38.400-06:002011-08-19T20:13:38.400-06:00I get what you are aiming at Joe, I think we are t...I get what you are aiming at Joe, I think we are talking about similar if not the same principles. Sobriety as a natural bi-product of a relationship with spirit-God. <br /><br />I still like the 10th step promise that the problem has been removed. <br /><br />Here's a question, is it possible that you still don't have a choice to drink? Because you are doing the work you automatically said no to a cold beer,is it possible you are not really making a conscious choice? Is it possible that God is guiding you and making this decision for you? I don't know the answer for you, but this is the type of thing I like to sit with.<br /><br />If someone said to me, "Rob, would you like to go play in traffic?" I would say no without really contemplating it. Even though there is a theoretical choice to be made. Why, because I now react-respond to life in a sane way.<br /><br />I don't want or not want alcohol, I am indifferent about it. I say no when offered because this is the sane thing for me to do.<br /><br /> God is doing for me what I can't do for myself (which is say no). Roland Hazard experienced this dilemma after he left Jung's office. Hey, Roland, want a drink? YEP. Although it would appear he had choice, he didn't. Truly fucked and beyond human aid. Scary diagnosis which is absolutely applicable to me (and I'm pretty sure PAtrick LOL)Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-8644112523060677482011-08-19T16:47:51.248-06:002011-08-19T16:47:51.248-06:00Right. You didn't want the beer and you didn&...Right. You didn't want the beer and you didn't neeD to choose anything. Even if your friend grabbed your hair and poured beer down your throat, you'd have spit it out.<br /><br />And no. If you would have chose to drink the beer, God would have thrown sobriety bolts at your beer and busted them up. Geesh. Ye of little faith!McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-79690698012086017972011-08-19T15:31:04.083-06:002011-08-19T15:31:04.083-06:00Not so fast there, pardner. I'm sitting here n...Not so fast there, pardner. I'm sitting here not drinking. Why? Because I don't want to. My friend drops by and offers me a cold frosty beer. No thanks. I made a conscious decision. Simple. I could have said "OK" and taken the beer. There were two options open for me here, I chose option one - not to drink. <br /><br />What gives me this power to choose? My spiritual relationship with God. While I have given my will and my life over to the care of God, He has not taken away my free will. If that we the case, then I could commit murder and blame God. Just by turning my will and my life over in no way relieves me of the responsibility to act rationally, to act as God wills me to.<br /><br />Now having said that, if I lose this spiritual thing I have going, if I drift away from God and the program of AA, then I will have no power to make the choice anymore. I will be powerless over making the decision to drink.<br />I know I can't keep myself sober, else I wouldn't be in AA. <br /><br />Period. End of story.<br /><br />Discuss.joehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16266375123411463390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-60668097883677181472011-08-19T10:02:38.337-06:002011-08-19T10:02:38.337-06:00The book says we get sanity back. It says that we...The book says we get sanity back. It says that we gain access to Power.<br /><br />Nowhere does the book say we get "choice" back.<br /><br />Period, end of story.McGowdoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16866948381728741656noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-33870119068648728232011-08-19T06:42:01.587-06:002011-08-19T06:42:01.587-06:00The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet ...<i>The fact is that most alcoholics, for reasons yet obscure, have lost the <b>power of choice in drink.</b> Our so called will power becomes practically nonexistent. We are unable, at certain times, to bring into our consciousness with sufficient force the memory of the suffering and humiliation of even a week or a month ago. We are without defense against the first drink.</i><br /><br /><i>As we felt <b>new power flow in,</b> as we enjoyed peace of mind, as we discovered we could face life successfully, as we became conscious of His presence, we began to lose our fear of today, tomorrow or the hereafter. We were <b>reborn</b>.</i> <br /><br />It's not a semantic point that I would want to spend more then the time it took me to write this but it seems Joe is stating the obvious. Before the program we had no choice, now we don't drink anymore. It was me, in my weak, fleshly state that drank even against my better judgment and endless resolutions. I lacked power, spiritual power. I had plenty of will power, just not the amour of spiritual power; a sustaining power that continues to flow from God and is contingent upon my willingness to be lead by God in my new life, each day.<br /><br />But Rob is also right, if I reject God, my batteries vanish, I am vulnerable and such a conscious decision to leave Gods sustaining protection would leave me back on the Titanic.<br /><br />It's truly and enigma.<br /><br /><br /><br />ColterColterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17394584466042799024noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3181024902947380214.post-18091490075434912942011-08-18T20:28:46.097-06:002011-08-18T20:28:46.097-06:00Here we go...........I love this idea of choice an...Here we go...........I love this idea of choice and the debates that ensue. Nice thing about this forum is I can disagree without getting overly nasty.<br /><br />I'm with Patrick, I have no choice regarding booze. None whatsoever, left untreated IE no conscious contact with God, my mind will bring me back to a drink, maybe my ego so attached to "my time" will think a bullet would do the trick nicely that way I'm sober when I blow my head off. Either way I'm dead.<br /><br />I said I have been given the power, implying that it was a gift, Grace is sometimes sufficient when ignorance prevails. Having had a spiritual awakening, I am not as ignorant as I once was and have to do more work to stay in a recovered state. This is why I submit and do all the steps yearly not just "living in 10-11". Similar to booze I like the effects it produces.<br /><br />Last few thoughts on choice.<br /><br />If the 10th step promise that the problem has been removed is true, where is the choice?<br /><br />If choice stems from will and I have given my will to God where is the choice? What kind of God have I chosen that would let me choose something I have a twenty year history of making the wrong choice.<br /><br />Choosing not to drink ranks right up there with thinking it through, if it works for you great, It does not for me nor the authors of the Big Book. <br /><br />Here's a question for all of us to sit with. Do you think you can keep yourself sober?<br /><br />Rant off........Rob Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13051571565294672514noreply@blogger.com