Hey guys, I want to talk to you about this blog and our current mission statement.
I spoke with one of my Cyber Recovery mentors and I want to do away with our current mission statement and start over with it. I want to get back to talking about recovery... pros and cons... and get away from battling it out with Stinkin' Thinkin' and remove any mention of Orange because to his credit, he's never engaged me personally nor us as a group that I know of.
I like friction as do some or most of us. But I don't like the current path we've been going down. I want to hear from some of our long time contributor here, ones we haven't heard from in a while too... such as Tony J, Mark, Freya, etc. I also want to weigh in with input from Jim, Rob B, Karl (Cuda), Joe...
I should let you know that I want to move forward with where I want to go... not with where I came from or what I've been tagged with. I didn't start this blog to become Mr. A.A., a dirty mouthed or racist or chauvinistic or anti-semitic or angry intolerant and low self-esteemed colleague in recovery. Nor am I a spiritual guru.
I do want to get away from the direction that I've encouraged here and the ball that I myself set in motion. Many of us here were kicked off of Sober Recovery. Many of us here have done battle with ST and their many offshoots. That's fine. But I don't want a perceived or real resentment to drive us going forward. Some of us may have done inventory over the thing, some of us may have not.
I no longer resent nor have any remorse over our/my battles with our adversaries and friends in recovery. I want to bury the hatchet, so to speak. I want to stop attacking others by name and character, whether it be real names, user names, etc.
I don't want to do this in such a way as to speak for A.A. or recovery in general. A more general look at the Golden Rule should be motivation enough. I don't like being called names. I don't like my character assassinated. I don't like my flaws and failures pointed out to me, whether perceived or real. But when it happens, it seems natural to lash out and retaliate... or project. I also want to get away from attacking those that I see engaging in MOTR... because deep down, I have a sense that those folks have a right too... whether in an A.A. meeting, N.A. meeting or anywhere else. It's up to the recovered alcoholic and good sponsorship to sort the folks we can help out from those that we cannot.
I don't care so much for notoriety nor popularity here, but want to start working on quality and ... purity ... of Truth, if nothing else. We are not the source of Truth, obviously... but we have seen it, experienced it.
Do you guys know what I'm saying? What do you think? I want to put our mission statement under construction and hear your input of creating a new direction.
I want some of the folks at Stinkin' Thinkin' to know that I don't hold any grudges against them. There are soem folks from there or enemies from Sober Recovery that I've battled with... some of which I was able to hash out my differences with and set those aside... and have come to some terms of mutual respect. Well there are others with whom I've had mutual respect with from the get-go... despite the harsh words we've shared and despite our differences. But I'd like to add that they've done me a world of good personally... to open my eyes to what's become of the A.A. fellowship, the addictions recovery industry, and the perceived and perhaps logistic failures of the A.A. program and its shortcomings to at least some representation of the population at large.
I agree with their view on whacked-out sponsors and step-Nazis out there that may/do cause damage to others. As far as cult talk and bashing of religion... spiritual quests... we can agree to disagree.
M.A. has told me way back that he would not argue religion with me. I took it as an insult that he would call my conviction with A.A. as a religion. But despite that, he's been true to his word.
As far as ftg goes, I honestly don't know why we had a falling out. She hasn't engaged me in public or private since my last quest to post over at ST... since this most recent one. I think she was upset with my battles with some of her other posters, IDK. But I tried to keep my side of the street clean with her as best I could.
In any case, I've dropped a couple of posts over there with discussion aimed at setting the record straight on our past and our recent inclusion of Danny. I read Stinkin' from time to time and I'm usually looking real quick to see if myself or one of our authors or folks over at Sober Recovery are in the Lime Light and I even glance at some of their links to other blogs or recovery discussions going on... such as the Charlie Sheen vs A.A. fiasco. Once in a while, I see posters over there that are not necessarily proAA, but they are not impressed with anti/ex-A.A. either.
I decided to bring Danny aboard not because of his anti-Stinkin' Thinkin' stance, but because of his quest to express himself in a safe environment... free from censorship... and to eventually talk pro-recovery... not anti-ST. In other words, an enemy of our adversaries is not necessarily our friend... so to speak.
You don't have to be pro A.A. to get along with most of us over here. You can hate A.A. in fact... but I personally am not here to be swayed into some talk of cult, religion, alcohol reform, thought reform, moral reform, political agenda, etc. I don't care about anybody's past. I don't care about your criminal record, your medical history, your political affiliation, your creed, the color of your skin, your gender, or your sexual preference. "We are not Saints". What I do care about is your current agenda... or lack thereof. If you're out there causing harm, preying on people, harming people, I ask you to step aside and clean that shit up. If you're an alcoholic and willing to come to terms with any of that, then there are some folks in here and me myself... that can attempt to help you with that.
That's what Rob B, Jim, Karl, Tony J, Joe, and even Freya have done with me. They've had conversations with me... either on the internet or over the phone... and have discussed with me some of the shortcomings that have been blocking me... as I give them spiritual consent to do so.
... And I want to get back to what has attracted some of these folks to this blog in the first place... to call bullshit when we see it... but to be willing to seek it and cast it out in ourselves as well. In other words, we're here to practice what we preach... so to speak.
I've heard talk of Glass Houses lately... and I want to... as I said previously.. bury the hatchet and move forward.
I wish we could have conversations over here with some folks who are anti/XA... in an intelligent and cordial manner. I would like to someday see folks like MA, ftg, Orange, Danny S, Dick B., etc. come over here from time to time... to drop by and disagree with us on something... or to clue us in on some recent atrocity going on in the world of recovery or cyber recovery.
I just feel we are a long way from this. Some folks don't want to bury the hatchet. They want to stay polarized... to be different... to be civil and smart and just and ... right! They want to keep their enemies underfoot... they are not free. I don't want to be that way anymore. I got other cool shit to do and I hope y'all do to.
Amen! As I’ve said from the time I first got here, I’d rather not waste my time getting into pissing contests with those who spend their time attacking AA. I feel no need to defend the program. I wholeheartedly agree with the fact that AA doesn’t work for everyone.
ReplyDeleteFrom what I’ve read on ST (admittedly not much), our little friends there don’t, for the most part, seem willing to engage in any rational conversation. To do so, it requires both parties to recognize the validity of the other’s beliefs. Not the accuracy, just the validity. From most of the posts I’ve read there these people don’t seem capable of that recognition.
Stanton Peele and agent Orange have already been the topic of one of my posts. I won’t waste time here re-hashing my opinion of either person or their agenda.
Now, having said all that, I would dearly love to see some intelligent arguments on this forum about AA. There’s certainly a lot about the program that I don’t like, and I’ve made my views known. A lot of these views are consistent with those of the anti/ex-AA crowd.
And there are a lot of folks who I like to read (Danny S is one) in the pro AA crowd who would be great to get some dialogue going with. A few new folks in SR should be invited to comment here also. I really believe that we’d attract a far wider reader audience if we got away from the attack/defend posture. There’s been some good stuff started on this blog in the past few months, but it’s often very short lived. The main attraction always seems to focus back on ST or SR. We need to get away from that.
So if you want to change the mission statement, Patrick, I agree 100%. We don’t have to defend AA; it doesn’t need us for that. Let’s have a blog about AA, warts and all. Let’s talk about what’s good and what’s not so good. Let’s talk about our experiences, let’s talk about our problems. And let’s listen.
We’ve talked a lot about fighting the battle of keeping AA the way it was designed to be in the Big Book by fighting down at the street level. That’s where we need to look at program from. That’s where this blog should be-down at the street level.
If someone has a horror story, let’s hear about it. But there has to be some sort of quality control here, also. I don’t want to hear about rumors or innuendos, legends about 13th steppers or any of that shit without some sort of verification as to it’s accuracy. There’s too much of that going on at ST.
Keep in mind that it’s OK for people not to like us. If we want a reputable blog about AA, alcoholism and recovery we can’t make it personal. If we make it personal, then we take it personal when someone disagrees. Then it’s back to the pissing contests once again. And I don’t get into pissing contests.
I can imagine the cries of victory from some of our little friends when they find out what you’re doing. Others over there will see the wisdom of it and drop in once in a while. Whether we agree or not, their opinions should be respected. As should ours.
So go for it!
Test
ReplyDeleteAre comments getting through?
Sometimes it takes a day to show up on the list, but it shows up after the post ASAP.
Give everyone some time to digest this, Patrick. It's a pretty serious topic. Changing the mission statement is easy, either we agree or disagree.
ReplyDeleteI've got a hunch that most will agree that change is much needed, and that your proposed direction is a good one. But what the new mission statement should entail may take some thought. Be patient. You'll hear from the rest of them.
Cyber Recovery? I forgot about that place. My contributions to this blog have been sporadic at best. I found a place where I can engage in knock down-drag out battles on the internet and leave God and AA out of the mix. I have little or no desire to argue with or try to convince anyone of my beliefs nor do I have the desire to condemn anyone for their beliefs. So I do my debating elsewhere.
ReplyDeleteSince you mentioned CR I went back over there and logged on. Going back through some previous posts I can see a change in my style over the last few years. Not for the better either. Previous posts were well thought out and there was meaningful content. These days it's about quantity. Maybe it's time to take a step back and collect myself and gather my thoughts before I type. As My Original Sponsor told me "Think twice, write once" Perhaps I forgot. Seems I forgot a lot of things. Like who I am, what I am and where I came from. In doing so it's possible to find myself right back.
Twenty seven years ago I went to my first AA meeting. I was escorted in wearing an orange jump suit and handcuffs. That's another story for another time. I too took the attitude of the adversaries of AA. My pride wouldn't allow me to admit defeat in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. To this day I would like a mulligan but all I get is the chance to tell my story in hopes of connecting with a young thick headed punk like I once was.
An analogy in the subject matter dictates we're still trying to fight a fight we can't win. Like alcoholics, jaywalkers and fools who battle ST. The parallels are stunning.
McGow, I've been trying to leave a comment. Every time I end up on an error page...
ReplyDeleteEntertaining as this blog is to read and sometimes join in the stirring of the pot, it is clear you have sat with this Patrick and have uncovered some truth, maybe we can be more efficient if we share our experience with recovery and spiritual truth than ripping on the dipshits that don't see it our way (I couldn't resist). I say change the mission statement and see where it goes. Sometimes change is good and necessary.
ReplyDeleteOh, I got through!
ReplyDeleteLet me try again:
Excellent post, McGow. I wish you well with your new direction.
Joe, I wanted to address your comment about our unwillingness to dialog or find common ground with you all. Since you don't read ST, I'm sure you haven't seen the instances when we've said that we have some common ground with you Big Book guys.
I'm not sure if I can leave a link, but I wanted to direct you to a comment I wrote last year. At the end of the comment, I detail all the points I think we have in common. (You'll see that didn't go over very well.) I hope you have a look at it though, because I think the comment might be a good kick off to a real dialog.
You can find it on this thread: stinkin-thinkin. com/2010/03/04/denial/#comment-3957
(I added a space in the url, after "thinkin" in case it was the link that kept my comment from posting earlier.)
If that doesn't lead you to the comment, the time stamp on the comment is March 5 2010 11:10
Best,
ftg
Friend, as I said, I haven't read much of ST but what I have seen leaves me with the impression that many members seem focused on only bashing AA.
ReplyDeleteYet I said further on in my comment that many of you will see what Patrick is trying to do here and will perhaps join us sometimes. You, MA and a few of the others (even Gunthar, God love him) who's comments I've read appear to be willing to listen to other views without going off the deep end.
I seem to recall MA remarking that he accepts some responsibility for the current situation because of some inflammatory remarks he's made in the past. We're just as guilty. But it's time for this foolishness to stop.
We both agree on a lot of things regarding AA and recovery in general. We also disagree on some points, but that's a good thing as disagreement leads to dialogue. I'll check out the comment you refer to and will get back to you on this blog about it. Hey, we have to begin somewhere.
Thanks, Joe
Rob! "I couldn't resist"!
ReplyDeleteSemper Fi Rob! Semper Fi!
You guys will have to show me the way of love and tolerance, it will be interesting to see if we can all play nice together, time will tell.
ReplyDeleteI agree we have more common ground with the XAers than most MOTR AA ers. That being said, we are people who normally wouldn't mix. We'll see how long this wave of good feelings lasts. Call me a skeptic.
Patrick wrote:
ReplyDelete"I decided to bring Danny aboard not because of his anti-Stinkin' Thinkin' stance, but because of his quest to express himself in a safe environment... free from censorship... and to eventually talk pro-recovery... not anti-ST. In other words, an enemy of our adversaries is not necessarily our friend... so to speak."
2nd post
"I don't care about anybody's past. I don't care about your criminal record, your medical history, your political affiliation, your creed, the color of your skin, your gender, or your sexual preference. "We are not Saints". What I do care about is your current agenda... or lack thereof. If you're out there causing harm, preying on people, harming people, I ask you to step aside and clean that shit up. If you're an alcoholic and willing to come to terms with any of that, then there are some folks in here and me myself... that can attempt to help you with that."
Patrick and fellow members,
I waited to think about what I would say concerning Patrick's judgmental comments (though he was sly)about me. All I could come up with is this.
Patrick, you want a new Mission Statement and direction, I say great. You don't want to fight with ST any more, beautiful. You want to find common ground, wonderful.
All I ask is don't talk about me or mention my name again when finding a reason for your change.
I am not your problem and never have been.
Your ignorance about my situation, accusations held against me, Elan, ect...is clear.
I don't prey, stalk or go out of my way to hurt anybody. For you to even infer this is grossly irresponsible and lazy. Do some research or refrain from making stupid comments based on biased information.
My agenda "HERE" has been as clear today as it was yesterday. Read the majority of my posts here.
I didn't come "HERE" for your charity or because I was fleeing from censorship. As a matter of fact I came here because you were getting your ass handed to you on a daily basis over on ST. Tony G. was in deep. I heard about your blog so I came over. Not because I was banned (I wasn't banned I lefT, if Ftg can get honest she will corroborate this.)
As far as I am concerned MA and FTG are fucking pigs and treat their adversaries (enemy) as such. I have read and witnessed what they have done to their own and their adversaries. But hey it is never their fault.
Patrick, I have had my say now and I feel much better. If you choose to make this my last post here, that will be fine.
If I am still here because you choose to allow that then I would like to have no more references to any of which was posted on ST talked about again.
This is my personal business and life and it is not open for judgment.
This was not one my most spiritual posts of all time but hey!!! I get to receive communion Sunday so I should be fine. Sucks being Catholic...lol
Semper Fi!!!!! I was a Marine from 1976 till 1988. Was a Gunny E-7 when I left. Special Ops Recon 1st MarDiv. ErrrRahhh!!!!!!!!
Do whatever the fuck you want to Danny.
ReplyDeleteI don't need your fucking charity or your defense against ST or anybody. I was frankly "off the ranch" when I did that shit anyway. This blog isn't just about me. It's about some of my fellow colleagues that got kicked off of SR together but we still had a common goal... a common solution.
So for me and some of us... it IS about lack of censorship. I would like to extend the branch to some of our adversaries and that's none of your fucking business either. Cope. If you can't, you're free to leave. I don't see any need to "kick" anybody off anything. I've got into verbal fights with some of my friends here. Just ask Rob and Jim. I've said some horrible things to them that I've regretted. They took it in with maturity and a just enough grace to piss me off. They said, "Get out a yellow pad, write my name in the first column, my offense in the second, and solve your problem in the 3rd because I ain't got one."
You were a Marine, that's great. I'm proud of you and your service. Now I'd like to say, "At ease, soldier." The fight is over. God is my Master. Is He yours? I'm not going to hold being Catholic against you... nor do I hold it against my parents, LOL!
Now I'd leave your "name" alone and not mention you... but you've got so goddamned many usernames, which ones do we have left? Which ones CAN we use?
One more thing Danny... about all the drama you're going through and stuff. Please don't ask me to look into that shit and research any of that stuff.
ReplyDeleteI'm not a fucking detective, nor am I a historian, nor am I a lawyer, nor am I a judge. I'm too fucking busy now with my job. My job is going well... I'm kicking ass, and I have more testing to do. I just don't have time for this.
If anything, you should be apologizing to me/us for the drama this has caused us all. I offered you or anybody a chance to come clean with whatever the fuck and point your attention back at seeking sobriety for yourself and/or helping new drunks... wherever your/our strengths are. My expertise and talent is not with the new guy... but with the wayward chronic slipper.
Did you really think we were solely here to fight ST and Orange and Stanton Peele? If so, I'll take the blame for that too. We recently changed our Mission Statement from what it once was. I guess we're more than part to blame with this mess we've got with Stinkin' Thinkin'.
I don't expect anybody out there to align themselves with me. If there's something about me you don't get with... you cannot associate with, you vote with your feet. Any many do just that. Many stay away from me for probably many reasons. I'm too nasty, I'm too whatever.
But this internet thing is just a supplement for me. My face-to-face world is exploding and I'm blessed beyond my wildest dreams now... and I'm gonna milk this sucker for all it's worth. If any of you are not in awe at the state of your universe now, I beg of you to walk away from your computer and go do what you should be doing... with God's help or whatever Power it is you appeal to.
Now I've got to get back to studying.
Ugh. I'm sorry about this:
ReplyDeleteDanny sez, "(I wasn't banned I lefT, if Ftg can get honest she will corroborate this.)"
I have the moment of his banning frozen in time in the comments section of the blog (unless that wasn't really him). Not that I expect anyone to bother with this crap, but just for the record:
http://stinkin-thinkin.com/neverending-thread/comment-page-13/#comment-29705
It started as a time-out, but became permanent when he "kept coming back" and then followed someone to another message board to harrass her and air his grievances about ST.
Danny's saying here that he wasn't banned, but on TonyJ's blog he says,
"heretikreb said...
Tony I would have to say that I am honored to finally make it to your blog. My username is Diablo and I too was banned as they say from ST. Actually I left then went onto another site and reamed Gunther and Sugomoms ass for being themselves. This got back to FTG and she just couldn't have this, got all hot and bothered and said I was banned. I'm good with that.
Anyway, I joined your brothers blog McGowan and that lead me here.
See ya around.
March 6, 2011 2:40 PM "
(Also, I never banned Rotten Ralph!)
OK, guys. I won't feed this drama anymore. This is the last time I'm going to address anything Danny says.
Oh, I see I misread that comment from Tony's blog. He does indeed say that he left and then was banned. But, as you can see from the link, he was already on the blacklist.
ReplyDeleteOK. Now I'm done.
Well I don't normally create this big of a ruckus and really like the quite life...lol.
ReplyDeletePatrick, love ya brother. Lets stop giving ST fodder to brag about.
Joe you are man of wisdom, I will concede to your words.
I apologize to everyone else for reading this shit.
Hey guys I mentioned my time in the Corps because of these comments:
ReplyDelete"McGowdog said...
Rob! "I couldn't resist"!
Semper Fi Rob! Semper Fi!"
Well thanks for the patience Danny.
ReplyDeleteI hope you don't hold against me/us our respect to ftg and MA specifically about some of their anti/XA points.
It's too easy to get carried away with fighting our detractors when you look at all of the claims the bunch of them make against us.
I'm not here to concede that anything they say about any of us is true. Innocent till proven guilty. I also don't want to get into a Purity of Character with them.
I want to stop the gossip and finking on our side of the street and who cares what they say. It sucks to not be able to defend/respond. So don't defend respond seems the only option. And if I'm really free, I can move forward with what's in front of me and ignore their jabs.
They made claim you followed them to bully them. You may have just been defending directly, as you couldn't respond on ST. Don't know if that's the case or if they'll see it that way.
I say leave them alone. Let them be sensitive. The grouch and the brainstorm are not for US.
And ditto Bro. Be well. Pray and meditate on this stuff.
To open the lines of communications to/with our adversary is a huge deal. What they do on their side of the fence is not our biz. We can learn more from them than our "allies". What page is that on?
Awwww. Can't you just feel the love....?
ReplyDeleteThere's my dog! I love real alcoholics being real. Carry on.
ReplyDelete"The grouch and the brainstorm are not for US."
ReplyDeleteI'm partial to "Pinky and The Brain."
MA has kind of a pinkish glow to him and I will not rest until I have achieved world domination.
That I can believe.
ReplyDeleteIt has been brought to my attention that I made a error in dating my time in the Corps. Let me at this time make the correction my enlistment date into the service was 1979 not 1976.
ReplyDeleteDILLIGAS?
ReplyDeleteJoe, a much belated 10-4!!!
ReplyDelete