Here's to the underdog

... and here's to the BigDawg!

WarEagle!

How about them SeaChickens?  They may get that winning record yet!

Judge Not Lest Ye Be Judged.....

I know this picture will get Mike excited but it's apropos.







So now the anti-AA squawkers are mandated by their cult leaders to ignore us. They will comply like the good little robots they are. No cult likes it's members to think for themselves. Good enough. o

But, as usual, they can't just leave. They have to throw shit at you first. Now, it's a charachter defect of mine that....when you throw shit at me, I'm gonna pick it up and throw it back at you.

Also, the anti-AA nut balls need to be exposed. For whatever it's worth, for as small an audience who has interest, just to keep the record somewhat straight.

So enjoy the following :




"SoberPJ says Wow, they are really dragging this thing through the raunchy dirt. It doesn’t get too much more vulgar than that. I hope that fair minded people can see what is happening here.

Something is terribly wrong with those people. Parents reading this, think about if you would want your child being involved with people that get that raunchy simply when their beliefs are questioned. How much lower will they go and what will it take to send them there? It’s really sicko stuff."

Wow, (not so)SoberPJ is playing the victim card.

Getting this raunchy when others have been raunchy towards us is not the same as getting this raunchy simply because our beliefs are questioned. You don't have to ability to have a debate without insulting us, so you get what you get. Blame yourself.

As far as raunch, have you bothered to look at your little girl friends over at ST and see what they are doing? Do you want 'fair minded people' to judge you as you would have them judge me ?

Your cult masters over at ST are staging the internet equivelant of the Nancy Grace show.


You have AnnaZed posting things like this :




"Of course the sponsors all talk shit out of school about what their sponsees tell them in their fourth step (of course they do!) so when I matriculated (as it were) to long sober sponsor type I was part of the inner coven of crypt key keeping bitches that know all of the secrets. Now, the bat-shit crazy woman that was sponsoring her could have made this up (though somehow I doubt it), but she felt compelled to tell us all that her sponsee had done time back in her early 20s for the sexual abuse of her male child who then went on to take his own life when he was a young man. This woman used to garner all sorts of hugs and sympathy when she shared about her grief over her son’s suicide, which she did all of the time. Somehow I felt rather less sympathetic when I was told that she had orally copulated him when he was a small child. I shudder even now when I think about it, yet I let this person hug me and I interacted with her by choice for (literally) years!"

So Anna heard a story about a woman second hand and this is a 'fair' judgement ?



Let me tell you Anna, I've NEVER had anyone tell me what was one someone elses 4th step. Not even anonymously. And the sober men I hang with wouldn't sit and have a coffee clutch and discuss it like you and your ignorant friends did.



Anna, everyone is not a low minded gossip like you are. The ones who are end up over at ST and that's why you fit in.



You let her hug you and interacted with her at the time because for a moment in your life you had some humility. You probably had a sense of your own moral failings too.



If that story is true it's a tragedy all around. What you're saying is that mentally ill people don't deserve your sympathy. I feel sorry for a mother who would hurt her son so much that he'd kill himself. Spiritually that's fairly low on the scale. I might not hang out with her but I would respect her in meetings, especially if she's been around for 20 years. Let's have a little perspective here.



AA is not an arm of law enforcement. AA is the place people go and hopefully try and get well. Sometimes they don't. Sometimes they abuse the system because that's the nature of a system. It can always be used by people in a negative way. Milking the system in this case would include predators using AA to make contact with people.

What's the solution ?




Use common sense and keep your guard up. I hear that message quite often.

 "SoberPJ says Right, we can live without them, but they have little to talk about without us. As their frustration grows so does the bizarreness of the attacks. How can anyone think being that vulgar is a rational response to ANY argument? We can make the jokes about serenity and all, but something is truly wrong with the person that responds that way. It is sociopathic and he is getting worse over time. It follows a pattern of mental illness – sometimes on the verge of being rational, then goes over the edge and turns angry, bitter and in this case vulgar. That’s mental illness folks."

Wow, SoberPJ is a mental health professional and has rendered a diagnosis.

Hey ST crew, isn't one of your complaints about AA that they have people giving out mental help advice with no qualifications ?

Now SoberPJ, why is it okay if you guys crack on us but when we give it back to you we're 'sociopathic' ? Isn't this just another example of how you guys at ST want to live in a world that allows you to act any way you please but forces the rest of society to act the way you would have them ? In other words, we should 'do as you say and not as you do', in other words, you're a hypocrite ?

How, exactly is being immature and hypocritical going to make the recovery industry a better place ?

friendthegirl says "One other thing that might help you keep some perspective when you venture out of the boat is that there are only about 3 or 4 of these weird ST obsessed whackjobs, and they talk only to each other — ever. Even their own peeps have banished them. There’s really no point in getting defensive or justifying or explaining anything to them. Really. There is no chance on earth that anyone is going to come here, read JD’s comments and decide that he has a point."

Our own peeps have banished us ?
Really ?

I think you are assuming that since the only friends you have are 'online friends', that it's also true for us. I have real peeps. I haven't been banished by my peeps in quite a while.

No, it's the anti-AA cult leaders have banished us. There's a difference. You guys don't count.

And good luck trying to act mature now.
Your 'peeps' are still cutting and pasting and bringing the snippets over to your blog for the monkeys to masturbate to.

I'd love to sit with a judge and go through your site.
I'd like to see if they're as stupid as you think. I have an idea that judges know that there are criminals in programs they mandate criminals to attend.....I could be wrong though.
Maybe it's you guys at ST who have the world figured out and it's the judges, doctors and mental health people who don't have a clue.

Oh and the bandwagon logical fallacy is not consistent with science based treatement.

http://www.logicalfallacies.info/relevance/bandwagon/

"The bandwagon fallacy is committed by arguments that appeal to the growing popularity of an idea as a reason for accepting it as true. They take the mere fact that an idea suddenly attracting adherents as a reason for us to join in with the trend and become adherents of the idea ourselves."

So, if we be 3-4 talking to ourselves and if you be millions, it means nothing at all as far as the truth of your arguments go.

Amoral people need a crowd of people to support them. Moral people do not.
To a moral person, the simple truth will do.

Don't get into any relationships for a year. Good advice. Why ? Because in a year you'll have a much better idea of who's who in the meetings.

Oh....but that's right, that's a cult control mechanism, isn't it ???

If you think you're going to control who gets to attend AA and who doesn't, you're better off just staying with your white middle class college educated friends over at ST.
Of course you don't know them very well either, do you ...........




Tony J's new blog;

http://www.stinkin-thinkin-revealed.blogspot.com/

*Some photos and vid added by McGowdog

Unmanageable?

What does unmanageable mean to you?

For me, I look at my life right now without God. Just me. Can I manage? Or do I need Power?
If I go to God for Power, am I ducking responsibility?

If so, how so?

So Much For Resolutions

Mike thinking about AA.


Looks like I picked a bad year to quit fighting Anti-AA.



From ST :

Mike says I think JD is Tony J, writing style is the same. I have years of experience reading that troll’s posts.

Mona Lisa says I agree with Mike; JD’s writing is suspiciously similar to Tony J’s.

DeConstructor says JD, Tony J, and McGowDog, the trifecta of the orgy of incompetence.

Ben Franklin says Jeez JD you sound like Tony J. Maybe your real name is Tony JD. Slick,real slick. He never really has much to say either and is a seething cauldron of serenity. Quick with the insult and not much else. You got nothing also.

Even Worse Than I Thought......

Well, I made a New Year's Resolution to put the anti-AA fighting behind me.
As all resolutions are, this one is being tested.

I meant to post a reflection on my anti-AA stance regarding my program. That seems a normal enough use of my time.

But now, before I do, it seems I need to address a little drama over at ST.

It seems they are accusing JD of being me. (and vice versa....)

Now, it's obvious that the anti-AA's aren't the best and the brightest that society has to offer.
It's equally obvious that they are pretentious and arrogant in an attempt to avoid looking at themselves for what they truely are. Pretending to be above the fray while rolling around in the mud is the oldest trick in the book for avoiding responsibility for one's own actions. A close second is scapegoating an organization and blaming your faults on it. (sound familiar ?)

But when I noticed Ben Franklin (college boy know-it-all) claim that JD was me and Mike(goody two shoes, Momma's boy and all around Ass-Worshiper) used his 'authority' of 'years of experience' much the same way he uses it to discredit AA I had to laugh.

I mean this crew is so clueless they don't even know which way is up.

Mona Lisa, of course is just stupid. Someone says something retarded and she instinctually agrees.

But what does all this hubbub prove ?

JD does not 'sound' like me in his posts. He just has the same general opinions of the anti-AA crew as I do. And that's not all that original. Most observers would.
But the fact that Ben Franklin's vagina drips and Mona Lisa's penis gets hard at the very thought of my name shows that the anti-AA community needs me just like the alcoholic needs a drink.

Without an 'AA' to contradict they couldn't exist. They need AA like any parasite needs it's host. And indeed that's what these people are. Parasites pure and simple. One minute leeching off society while drunk, the next minute leeching off society while slightly less drunk.

I've been banned from ST for a year and they're still fantasizing about me.

Really, it's all the more reason to give up the fight.

But in JD's defense I needed to set the record straight.

JD is not me. Sorry losers. Just like you're wrong about everything else in your life, you are wrong about this too.


Does anyone want to see more of Ass Worshiper Mike's splendid character ?

ST Article :


A 28-year-old Rapid City man who sexually assaulted a family friend younger than 16 will spend the next six months in prison and the next 15 years on probation.

''
''
''

Thorstenson gave Donley the maximum sentence allowed under the law but granted him a suspended execution of sentence.

Instead, she sentenced him to six months in prison and placed him on probation for the next 15 years.

During his probation, Donley can have no unsupervised contact with children younger than 18 and must abide by a 7 p.m. curfew.

Donley was also ordered to pay more than $3,000 in restitution and almost $1,000 in court costs. He must continue drug and alcohol counseling and attend Alcoholics Anonymous or Narcotics Anonymous.
Mike :

"Mike says So now the guy can meet up with other sexually deviants in the halls and do some real damage. I can just picture him now leering at the young mother with the baby carriage in the next row. How utterly contemptible."Hey jerk off, Donley can have "NO UNSUPERVISED CONTACT WITH CHILDREN YOUNGER THAN 18" as part of his probation. Do you understand that jerk off ?

Do you think you can administer justice better than judge Thorstenson ?


And are you worried about the baby or the mother ? I'm sure you see this Donley as competition, after all it's been proven in a court of law that the man had sex. Something you can only dream about. How many women with babies have you leered at over your 20 year carreer in AA ?
After all, you claim it's a haven for sexual deviants and you know because you spent 20 years in 'the halls'......so that begs the question, why did you hang around with sexual deviants for 20 years unless you're one yourself ?

No Mike, you're just projecting your own faults onto everyone else in the room (or hall).

Whatever your sexual hang ups are you need to address them. You have just a little too much interest in the sex life of others for me to feel comfortable around you. Thou protesteth too much.

15 Seconds on Sober Recovery by Stinkin' Thinkin'

friend the girl, author at Stinkin' Thinkin' lead me to an SR post about Dry Drunks.

I honestly don't like the term too much.  It's not really a description of the 12 Step program that I'm aware of... but there are many caveats in the book about warning folks of the dangers of "resting on our laurels" and such.

Some anti/XAers use the topic as a claim that proAA cultists use the term to describe folks who got sober with something besides the coveted A.A. program.  IDK.  It's probably a true claim in some/many cases.  They've opened my mind to the "There's no wrong way to get/stay sober" concept.

So ftg posted this...

By the time I get this post up, the thread will probably have been kiboshed by the keystone cops over at SoberRecovery (I have a screen cap). But some open-minded soul over at SR has linked to us in a discussion on the bogus concept of “dry drunk” (thank you, open-minded soul!) and I thought it would be interesting to see where the discussion goes now.

in response to this thread at SR, and assumed the post wouldn't last 15 seconds before the SR mods took it down.


Instead, an SR poster stood their ground and in my opinion, single-handedly bitch-slapped ftg, her claim, and the whole bunch over at Stinkin' Thinkin';

SR Poster:

Quoting anti/XAer and Stinkin' Thinkin' mark named nvrbeentospain:



   Originally Posted by nvrbeentospain


   I'm not personally a believer in the whole dry drunk concept. For some   unabashed flaming on the topic, you can check out what stinkin-thinkin has to say about it. Admittedly, they're a very anti-AA group.


   Dry Drunk – Stinkin' Thinkin'


   But since "dry drunk" is an AA concept, not being a "dry drunk" probably means doing AA and following their steps.


   Getting away from the "dry drunk" label, I think it's true that getting sober doesn't necessarily make you a better person or fix the problems in your life. Working on that is important for everybody.

 And that is a shame that some would spend their time in futile resentment trying to mislabel AA as some religious cult. I have seen some others ex-AA'ers with the same vendetta trying to sway others with their copy and paste twisting meanings. Most of them anti-God Christian hating atheists authors trying to mock AA'ers as brainwashed people when that is the farthest from the truth.


While I will agree, some of these slogans, such as dry drunk, can and probably are overused by AA'ers on occasion, when I speak of that term, my meaning is in life in general. I do not mean it from an AA meaning.


When someone takes the drink from a drunken horse thief, they are left with a horse thief. And unless some change is made in their life, that is usually the case. I have also clearly stated this change can take place either in AA or for some outside AA, as AA does not have tibs on recovery.


I don't understand why someone would devote such time to such a hateful site in mocking what is known to work for so many that they have to establish web sites with articles to twist other comments to make it fit what they think things to mean. If they do not believe in 12 step nor are involved it in, one should ask themself this one simple question. In what way are they even qualified to speak of it then to get others to believe their BS? And what is their 'true' intention of doing so.


Does anyone actually believe it is because they 'care' for anyone who is trying to get sober? I hardly think so.

Score

SR 1
ST 0

Gunthar2000-2009, for the "Where Unicorns fart rainbows and skittles" blast - 1

Ah... but then he just dropped two points with this;

Gunthar2000 says They never give the horse thief any credit for getting sober.



What they’re really saying is…


“When an insecure human being puts down the drink, you still have an insecure human being, and we AAs have every intention of using that to undermine their self-confidence until they will submit to the authority of our religious cult. We AAs don’t care how much pain we cause these individuals The important thing is that they realize they are one of us, and can therefore never be forgiven for the things that they have done.”

Gunthar2000 -1.
We A.A.s really don't sit around in meetings talking about fucking horse thieves and shit.  We show those who want our solution how to do steps.  We enable those afflicted how to forgive thyself... which usually starts with forgiving others first.  This is exactly what happens the moment we finish our 3rd column of our 4th Step.  We look out immediately at those WE resented.  Why?  Because that's what spiritually sick people do... though they don't usually realize... well, you know the drill. 

It's all about Unicorn Fart Dust and Skittles.  As you were...



__________________________________________

This just in!

anti/XAer from ST:

 
So now, A.A. is being blamed for turning people agnostic and atheist!  Wow!  The Power!

No, little anti/XAer bitches!  You're radical atheists because someone told/asked/suggested you to do something to get something and you threw a hissy-fit temper tantrum. 

When A.A. goes away, then the world will be a better place.  Translation, until A.A. falls, the world is fucked!

Happy New Year!

I love how nobody is qualified to criticize AA but everyone in AA is an expert on alcoholism and the program. Arguments such as this are a true aggravation because they are so obviously nonsensical yet every stepper uses them. I am constantly being told I misinform, distort facts, and just lie. Yet when steppers are confronted with the facts they simply keep repeating their arguments in light of the fact that they have been proven wrong. Religious indoctrination is so powerful is it any wonder that people become atheists or agnostics after experiencing this form of religious insanity?

Thank You Again DeConstructor!

Now Featuring Stinkin' Thinkin's very own ***edited***!

Whenever the anti/XAers in cyberworld pull up the topic of predators and sexual abuse/exploitation, Stinkin' Thinkin' Cheerleader/author DeConstructor is there to meet the call.


If I'm not mistaken, this is one of those honks from the now defunct ExposeAA website where they drummed up a story of sexual deviance in an A.A. meeting where a guy supposedly brought his mom to a meeting and had to overhear another guy talk about wanting to have sex with his own mom.  Then he mocked the A.A. slogans by showing signs such as,

One Mom At A Time

and sick fucking shit like that.  Here are some of the folks who supported that sick Youtube effort, btw;

Blamethenile, aka Mike
Stanton Peele, the Audrey Kishline apologist
Hammersley, youtube retard
Isegoria
Godlessweasel
AzzholesAnonymous
2pWorth
LifeSober
Gunthar2009
Go-Go RACH
etc.

Anyway, this is an example of DeConstructor's recent work;

DeConstructor says: It is DUMPING people. It gives the face saving reasoning to society that the court did everything it could, and repeat customers to the court are simply labeled as people who do not “Get it”


There is also a chance that this judge actually believes the misinformation that AA promotes as many of the people in this forum (including me) believed for a lot of years.


The AA faith has not really had any negative press until the last few years, and had only great press for decades. This is a respected American Institution.


We can do this. We can influence change, and perhaps even destruction of this cult and its profitable industry. However, it should be always understood the enormity of this undertaking.


I think many of us should communicate with this judge, and inform her of the dangers of the AA faith. We should make it known that if she continues to sentence people to the AA faith, aware of the inherent dangers, that we will hold her accountable, and will inform the world should any of her sentencees be murdered, raped, swindled, or suicides.

Now... someone... an anti/XAer with a lick of sense responds to these folks over there like Gunthar and DeConstructor;

jhtepper says @Gunthar2000


It is sad but true. I stated “within reason”. Your anger is clouding your reasoning. I said it, your parents said it, your teachers said it, judges will say it because it is true. Take some time away from ST and google constitutional rights of minors in the US. An example would be the summary searching of school lockers without a warrant even though their is a reasonable expectation of privacy. For someone over 18 in the public, such a search would clearly be a violation of the 4th Amendment’s prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures yet all challenges have failed.

You people actually look to shut A.A. down this year, don't you?  If this is what you really really would like to do... if you really really really want to destroy A.A., here's your best shot...
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Join up again!

Mentalhelp A.A. Cult Blog winding down

I have to thank Dr. Mark D for giving us a place to battle with the anti/XAers and ultimately introducing me to Tony J. From there, I introduced him to SR where we could all get kicked off into the cyber zoo which is Alcohol Recovery.

I said my final adios to the group and a few anti/XAer minions like Mike from Blamethenile and Stinkin' Thinkin' launched their final little insults;

Mike says- True-believers tend to resort to violent (and anti-semitic) rhetoric when prodded. This seems to coincide with a general right-wing religious world view of a segment of the overall U.S. population. Sad and frightening. McGowDog and Tony J, you know who you are. Shame on you.

I would have responded to that, but posts are heavily moderated and bottle-necked... besides I don't know when the gate is gonna finally shut so... Tony J beat me to it and demonstrated the class that those bozos don't deserve anyway;

Tony J says;

Excellent. - Tony J - Dec 31st 2010


Mike :

"- True-believers tend to resort to violent (and anti-semitic) rhetoric when prodded. This seems to coincide with a general right-wing religious world view of a segment of the overall U.S. population. Sad and frightening. McGowDog and Tony J, you know who you are. Shame on you."

No Mike, shame on you for taking the low road and naming names instead of trying to part as friends.

Shame on you to for accusing me of being a violent anti-semite when I am neither.

But thank you for revealing your true character one last time for us. If anyone wants what you have after 20 years of 'sobriety' they know what to do.

For me, my anti-AA fighting days are over.

You wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty and the pig likes it.

Dr D, thank you once again.

Peace everyone (even Mike).

All I can say to Mike's final stab at us is... take your shame and shove it up your ass.  That's right.  I don't need your shame and I'm not going to apologize for my bad behavior, my good behavior, or any other bullshit that you claim on me yet excuse in yourself.

See, we already know your game and baiting of us going on back and forth from Mentalhelp and Stinkin' Thinkin';

Mike says


…and if anyone reading this thinks we are engaging in a lot of hyperbole, check out this long running thread at http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=9527. There’s two nuts who post there named McGowDog and Tony J who are apt to make veiled physical threats after they are prodded into the intellectual corner. It’s kind of funny at times but also has an unsettling air to it.

We weren't making any veiled threats.  You were flat out insulting us and we merely responded in kind.

I have a right to live my life as I see fit.  If I want to talk about A.A., I'm gonna do it.  If I'm gonna violate our own traditions, I'm gonna do it.  If you want to do the same thing with your anti/XA cult and try to hang us with our own virtue and rules and point your sharp little fingers at us and cast your beady little eyes at us, so be it.  That's you wasting your own time letting us live in your head rent free.

And I do have to laugh at the way you slober all over yourselves warning the world of this Vicious Cult that is A.A. and your dismantling of it, as it will be no more in a year or so...  when all those coffee pots dry up for good and folks stop frequenting the local church basements.

Happy New Year for those of you who are capable of such.  It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad world out there.



______________________________________

This just in:

AA-Cult? comments are now closed - Mark Dombeck, Ph.D. - Jan 2nd 2011


All,

We are closing the comments here at this time (2010-01-02) after it has become clear that messages are simply being repeated in an endless circle of insults and hostility between pro and con camps (with regard to AA).

The "utility" of AA is an important question without a doubt, as are related questions as to abuse that occurs within AA some of the time and alternatives to AA for those who are seeking alternatives (there are many). We will find ways to continue to enable discussion of these issues as we go forward. Hopefully we can do so without so much personal attack occurring.

Thanks to all who have contributed comments here. Burried in the dross are many gems which perhaps can be be dug up and repurposed.

Dr. Dombeck

Thx again Dr D. He once told an anti/XAer that was pointing his/her hairy little fingers and casting their beady little eyes upon my/our proAA blog;

Dr. Dombeck's Note: I suppose you are laughing because of the relatively small number of entries on this board. I don't know. I think it nice that MgD is putting in the effort to create a community. It isn't easy to do this work, you know, and people can benefit from it.

Then my response to Dr D:Thank you Dr. D. These dorks have yet to realize that they would die of boredom if we ... the objects of their hatred... disappeared from their pathetic lives.

This is all over there on our McGowdog Proboard. I actually started a "Mentalhelp Power Hour" thread here... still don't know how to use this darned link... here;  www.mcgowdoghouse.proboards.com/index.cgi