No.
At least, that's how simple it is at my home group.
A.A. is not a daycare center. People bring their babies and young children to some "open" meetings I go to and guess what? The kid misbehaves. Surprise surprise! These kids' folks aren't Ward and June Cleaver. These kids tend to be loud, disruptive, self-aware, and they don't behave like the rest of the group would want them to. Some are so young, that the parent puts the rest of a group into a situation that's not fair.
When you go to a movie theater, church, on a long coast-to-coast flight, or a nice restaurant, how do you like when you get stuck next to the crying baby? It's unbearable. In fact, Bose has come out with a set of noise-cancelling headphones which work pretty well... and retails for about tree-fiddy.
Screw that. I'd like to develop another gadget... the bubble-head®. The Bubble-head® is an invention of mine in the concept stage. It's a device that you put onto the baby's head that enables air to go in, but for sounds, fluids, etc. to stay in as well. It could be an ergonomic break-through as well. No more chiped teeth, broken noses, etc.
Anywho. No babies at meetings. Find a baby-sitter for an hour or two. If you can't afford child-care, keep your legs crossed. A.A. is for alcoholics. Disruptions suck.
W.C. Fields used to say, "Little children are to be seen and never heard." Unfortunately, that's not possible. My dad used to say to me, "Here's 5 dollars, go play on the freeway."
An SR-er:
"the long form of tradition 5 states that each aa group aught to be a spiritual enity having but one primary purpose, carrying the message to the alchoholic who still suffers.
This leave TONS of room for interpretation...it can support either side.
It doesn't say we judge who is suffering or who is not...it doesn't say that our purpose is best served by every person in the meeting being free from the sound of children.
Many things in the big book and the other literature are not specific...we bring our expereince to the issue and see it as we think it is ment...and since this is a disease of perceptions we are often quite wrong.
I have a lot of concerns about how the issue explained is being discussed and the answers formulated....because i have my own expereince within the program that colors my perceptions.
This is why my biggist concern in any decision making process on issues like this is when individuals have already decided in their mind what the right answer is and are simply playing lip service to the idea of a group concious (scuse my spelling lol) Naw! We wouldn't possibly judge you for that! We didn't even notice!
I would be hard pushed to set aside my own opinions and experience that helping the still suffering alchoholic goes beyond years of sobriety (not always just dry) and that the welfare of the individual follows CLOSELY after that of the group...how harmed are the others really... And HOW do we best help the alchoholic who still suffers?
I think what we are suppose to do is enter the arena with an open mind for a solution for all rather than an agenda of whats best for everyone...we have never managed the world well..that is our problem is it not.
the traditions are suppose to bind us together in action...not be used to drive us appart .... I have staunchly supported specific interpreatations of the traditions within my home group that I believed were absolutely correct...and still do.....yet the result was that i added to the disharmony, spintered the group..rather than working together for a common solution.
I made my ammends for that years ago...and have kept that in mind very carefully the last few years.
but i have to say it cause i'm still sick...krikes! a crying baby is gonna keep someone from getting sober?????
Oh, and this is a poster with some "cred..."
Posts: 11,502
So yeah, Tradition 5 aught two bee a spearichyouall intity and stough... so reconize bich!
Ana... I'm with you in spirit. We are a bunch of drunken bastards and mean as weasels when we get sobered up compared to the olden days when we were nice and all fuckered up.
You didn't splinter the group. The minority fucking opinion is the most important one. The "calm still voice" is the voice of God and is rarely heard.
We sober drunks are intolerant bastards when we wanna be, and we always wanna be. But what the hell? Some of us came to the meeting to get away from the kids, right? When you invite folks over and they have kids, guess who gets the remote? They don't want to watch Boise State play Oregon. No. They want to watch Dora the Stupid Twit. Kid TV sucks. Unless they're watching South Park, Aqua Teen, Robot Chicken, Spongebob, or Mad Men.
So yeah, Tradition 5 aught two bee a spearichyouall intity and stough... so reconize bich!
Ana... I'm with you in spirit. We are a bunch of drunken bastards and mean as weasels when we get sobered up compared to the olden days when we were nice and all fuckered up.
You didn't splinter the group. The minority fucking opinion is the most important one. The "calm still voice" is the voice of God and is rarely heard.
We sober drunks are intolerant bastards when we wanna be, and we always wanna be. But what the hell? Some of us came to the meeting to get away from the kids, right? When you invite folks over and they have kids, guess who gets the remote? They don't want to watch Boise State play Oregon. No. They want to watch Dora the Stupid Twit. Kid TV sucks. Unless they're watching South Park, Aqua Teen, Robot Chicken, Spongebob, or Mad Men.
They think that we are so hard-ass here because if you bring your kids to the meeting we will ask you to leave, along with the kids, of course. We aren't against kids, in fact we like kids. But not at the meeting.
ReplyDeleteHad to ask a guy to leave tonight. Not because he had kids, but because he introduced himself as an addict. We told him that it was a closed meeting and that if he wasn't alcoholic he couldn't stay. Then we asked him if he'd like a couple of us to go to Denny's with him and have a meeting, but he declined. At least he didn't get pissed and leave in a huff because we treated him decent.
Kids are ok I guess... as long as they're somebody elses.
ReplyDeleteDo they cost more than $500.00? If so, I'm not interested.
Most people who don't want children have them and most people who want them can't have them. Except for me. I don't want them and I don't have them. Thank God! They might turn out like me. Could you imagine a pastle of McGowdoggies running around? Scary thought.
Someone else who's not welcome in the closed meeting is the alanot-er the alanon. We had a guy who goes to meetings with his sister. I felt bad for the lady because when he came to our meetings, she used to wait outside in the car for the hour. He eventually left the group and they went elsewhere.
I'm glad that meetings are autonomous and that there are many different flavors of A.A. within the fellowship.
The anti/XAers love to say, "Recovery is not a 'One size fits all' program?" Well not shit. Neither is the A.A. fellowship at large. The A.A. Fellowship is like Baskin Fucking Robbins.
Ok, let's stop beating around the bush. This is in response to a thread on Sober Recovery's 12 Step Subforum entitled "babies at meetings".
ReplyDeleteI'm in agreement with the OP and Carol D here. It's not about our intolerance about babies crying and children being selfish and misbehaved kids due to lousy parenting. That's a topic all on its own. It's about children disrupting the damned meeting.
And I blame the God-damned parents! What the fuck is so fucking hard to understand about this topic? Leave your child and puppy dog at home and let your spouse cover for an hour and a half! Is this so hard? What? You don't have a spouse? Oh. Well let me not judge you! Maybe single parenting isn't all that and a bag of chips. Maybe you're not in the best situation to be that child's parent in the first place.
I think a child having a mom and a dad as being a good thing. It's not a guarantee! I'm not saying that. Maybe the parent had a child with the spouse, the spouse turned into a violent abusive asshole, and there you are, stuck as a single parent.
So now you're an alcoholic and need an A.A. meeting. Or maybe not. Maybe you need a "Single Parenting" meeting. Or maybe a visit with Dr. Laura, Oprah, or Dr. Phil. Maybe you ought to try that Rational Recovery. Maybe just do S.R. and stay home.
Or maybe, you should be a selfish narcissistic victim who can go to an A.A. meeting, bring your kid and your slobbering APBT with AIDS, and guilt everybody else in the room because you're special.
How about this idea? Child or no child, dog or no dog, spouse or no spouse, stay home and do your steps. You really don't need but a meeting a week. Or how about this? Join Stinkin' Thinkin' and express your hatred for A.A. They'll love you until you learn to blame A.A. for all your problems. At least the anti/XAers and I have something in common; most meetings are no place for children, let alone other non-alcoholics. As far as A.A. being for any alcoholic, that's where our philosophies part.
I'm the reason I'm not having children.
ReplyDeleteI always thought this would be a good bumper sticker, Feel free to capitalize on this, I'm sure it would be a winner, I would like 10% of the royalties.
Now, we have some nephews and nieces and stuff... but I think I want the bumper sticker... "I'm my cats' dad"
ReplyDeleteWhen my FIL, my wife's dad refers to his dawg, he refers to her as my wife and I's sister. It's pretty funny.
I think the main reason my wife decided to marry me is because I clean the cat box. She's got a maine coon now who must be 12 years old, but he still acts like a goofy kitten. When our cats bite the dust, it's gonna be a sad day. I tell you that right now. That's one problem with animals. You either lose them in a divorce or they bite the dust.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I removed the post is that I quoted this from McGow: "I'm my cat's dad" and it didn't show up.
ReplyDeleteWhat I said was "Almost as bad as being my own grandpa."
I used to go to a meeting where a young woman brought her baby to nearly every meeting for a year. The baby became a toddler and would run around the meeting making a lot of noise. When the mother couldn't make the meeting, she gave the child to other AA members to bring. So it was constant and it was one of the reasons I had to quit the meeting, in addition to drug addicts talking about drugs and people using cell phones. I felt like people's attitude was, "if you don't like children in the meeting, go find another one". Fast forward one year and at a different meeting today, they were THREE babies. I needed this meeting today BADLY but had to leave and go home. It isn't fair but if you speak up about it, you're likely interpreted as a child hater.
ReplyDelete"Love and tolerance is our code." Enough said.
ReplyDelete