Stinkin' Thinkin' lampooning Soberrecovery again

MA says,

Fun With Delusion


There is a thread in the works from the fun bunch over the Sober Recovery forum titled, “Why do some alcoholics continue to suffer?” It’s so far out, over-the-top, ’round the bend crazy; and the first two posts are so entertaining, I decided to post a link to it now, so you folks could enjoy the show. Get your popcorn…

Get your own popcorn, MA, and shove it.


This post may be entertaining, but not the first two. You pick on Boleo because he makes sense in a "A.A. works as a spiritual solution" sort of way. You have to dog Boleo because he answers your anti/XAer criticism of God and the "God of A.A."


You ask why God saves some drunks, but lets folks starve and suffer in Haiti? Because, that's fucking why.


It's ananda you should be eating your popcorn on;

The question in the big book is "god could and would if he were sought" or i guess it's a statement.


I question this....and I find it arragant of those who have recovered to assume those who have not simply didn't seek hard enough....if it works for you great...It is sorta like saying you recovered from cancer cause you believed and god cured you....it indicates those who don't recover...they just didn't believe good enough or hard enough.


If that's what you believe fine....but for myself, I cannot go there, never have gone there and never will....2 months sober or 7 years sober...or one day....I absolutely object to blaming the diseased person for their inability to get well. It may make some feel safer, but it's a total cop out to the very spirituality expressed in the 12 steps to say it was the human power, belief, willingness or honesty that kept them from sobriety....


Is your quality of willingness, open mindedness and honesty soooo darn high you can really look down (sure with "compassion") upon your fellow man?


I believe in AA and the 12 steps...but sometimes...I believe it gets distorted.
__________________
Copyright © 2010 - 2010 Ananda

She "copyrights" herself. How cute. Are you fucking sober yet, ananda? It's about fucking time, if you are. A moderator/greeter/ass-kisser with 11,562 posts at SR should have some kind of wisdom... should, that is.


You, ananda, fit the Stinkin' Thinkin' mold. In fact, you just might be the SR/ST double-agent that's been stirring things up.


What's my experience on the thing? I haven't had cancer, so I guess I'll cross that fucking bridge when/if I get there. I personally, think I'm too schizo to get the fucking thing anyway.  When I came back to A.A. on this last go around, I was told that there are many "will-nots" and not so many "can-nots".  The folks in the group told me that booze did something to/for me.  If I don't want to get and stay sober, I definitely won't.  This is a fact.  Suffering isn't always bad, but it is fucking optional.  That's right.  You heard it here first.  Write that down now, MA.  I know you fucking need me.  I feed you.  Now here's some more... Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.  I won't suffer fools.  Not anymore.


Maybe hairlips and retards ARE to blame. Maybe there's a Karmic wheel and there is reincarnation and if you're a piece of worthless shit A.A./religious mocker, you come back as a dirty mangy mutt and you get assigned to a mean abusive alcoholic with a small backyard and a picket fence.

Happy Thanksgiving!

M.A. from Stinkin' Thinkin's Thought for the Day

Thought of the Day
Posted on February 5, 2010 by M A
Perhaps those AAs who are getting sober with the help of their Higher Power™ could “go it alone” for a few days so God can sort out things in Haiti.

Filed under: Deep Thoughts Leave a Comment »

I went to um... leave a comment, and it wouldn't let me for some reason. Last night, I was in like flynn. Oh well. Well since M.A. aka Shark Sandwich is with us over here now... I'd like to drop a response.

Well that sounds fair to me. I could give up God for a few I guess. I'll just pray to my cats for a few days, no problem. That will be cool. They get pretty spiritual when we give them catnip. Godnip.

Anywho... I thought God spoketh over there in Haiti about 23 days ago.


I added this bit thinking that I was being blocked from over there, but not the case... as it was just a temporary bottleneck.

mikeblamedenial, on February 6th, 2010 at 7:59 pm Said:

“M.A… you had a shitty sponsor. Let me help you with that next time, please.”

So did you, it would seem. If you are going to make offers of sponsorship, particularly when describing or commenting on 12-step concepts, I suggest you first get a dictionary, and a thesaurus, and do a little reading. Your repeated misuse of the word “amend” indicates a lack of understanding of its meaning,. The word only appears in the English language as a verb and its definitions do not apply in the 8th and 9th step applications.

“a·mend
a·mend·ed, a·mend·ing, a·mends
VERB: tr.
To change for the better; improve: amended the earlier proposal so as to make it more comprehensive.
To remove the faults or errors in; correct. See Synonyms at correct.
To alter (a legislative measure, for example) formally by adding, deleting, or rephrasing.
To enrich (soil), especially by mixing in organic matter or sand.”

The noun “amends”, which the 8th and 9th steps mention, always ends in the letter “s”. I would also submit that the definition of that word has been convoluted in your current 12-step application. It isn’t an apology, a confession of sin, a plea for forgiveness, or any other make-us-feel-good-about-ourselves-and-get-right-with-God nonsense. Here are some dictionary definitions from three different sources:

something given or done to make up for injury, loss, etc. that one has caused.

Recompense for grievance or injury.

Compensation for a loss or injury

Here are some synonyms to clear it up even further–amends: noun Something to make up for loss or damage: compensation, indemnification, indemnity, offset, quittance, recompense, redress, reimbursement, remuneration, reparation, repayment, requital, restitution, satisfaction, setoff.

As you can hopefully see, penance, sacraments, the pain of Jesus, the all-seeing Eye of God, Scientology, etc, while possibly worthwhile subjects of discussion, clearly are not within the intentions of the ninth step or the scope of any proper amends discussion between sponsor and sponsee. Yours is a good example of one of the basic shortcomings of sponsorship: inept leadership based upon indoctrination rather than genuine qualification to administer accurate, helpful information. Write your letter of confession and apology to the Eye, and send me a Paypal check (you have my email addy) as compensation for all those crappy things you said about me, then go ahead and continue to take personal inventory, promptly admitting when you are wrong.

Reply
Jim, on February 6th, 2010 at 9:57 pm Said:
I agree. If an amend is done from a place of seeking to ease a guilty conscience and not from a sincere desire to set right a wrong, it only feeds the sickness from whence it came.

That being said, I’m glad I’m not famous because I screw up all the time.

They have a saying in AA that you can’t save your face and your ass at the same time.

Reply
mcgowdog, on February 6th, 2010 at 10:10 pm Said:
Take you Funk and Wagnalls definitions and cram them up your pipe hole.

I have plenty of awesome experience on making amends. I do them and I finish them every year.

” It isn’t an apology, a confession of sin, a plea for forgiveness, or any other make-us-feel-good-about-ourselves-and”

“An apology won’t fit the bill at all.” So… no shit, Sherlock. What was your first clue? But showing contrition and sorrow is very important. But what part of my amend example did I say, “I’m sorry!”? No where.

What’s your experience making amends? We use the Sacraments of Pennance in our 8th Step. If you’ve done such a thing, we can talk about it. If not, I’m not interested in your opinion of which you know nothing about.

Paypal? I owe you money? Why don’t you go down to the soup kitchen and eat. Next time someone bumps into you at an intersection, come out grabbing your neck… go for the California Lottery. Oh, and please, go down to the bus depot and give out some free b-jobs and get your self esteem back. Quit being a victim. I owe you nothing. Don’t like my writings? Don’t read them.

Reply
mikeblamedenial, on February 6th, 2010 at 10:51 pm Said:
Your hateful, vulgar, and generally unkind words are a stark contrast to your professions of sacramental adherence and the selfless dedication to helping others prescribed by 12-step doctrine. Once again, the word is “amends”, not “amend”. Repitition is the key to learning new information.

Reply
AndyM, on February 7th, 2010 at 12:10 am Said:
Odd that so many online 12 step apologists manage to combine a claim of profound spiritual spiritual insight with a filthy (if sadly limited and misspelt) vocabulary. Suggestions that people who disagree with them shove various things up their rectums seems to be a popular theme with them for some reason. I do wish aa literature had been written in this robust , no-holds-barred, lavatory wall style of prose. For my money it would have given a more accurate picture of aa spirituality as seen in practice.

Reply

McGowdog:

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of everybody else in the room.

I expected nothing more from you whiny bitches.

The Disease Concept and Anti-AA problems

I wanted to talk about the 'disease' concept and the anti-AA. For some the 'disease' concept is an excuse not to use a 'spiritual' program. For others it's a sign that AA doesn't know what it's talking about.








The argument is that no doctor would tell you to pray and meditate if you had cancer.


I am your doctor, now do what I say!




Bill Wilson is alive and living in Argentina with Adolf Hitler


">

Hello everyone. I’m really smart. I have a youtube channel called blamethenile. I make videos about alcoholics anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous is a dangerous cult that makes people commit suicide. I know thousands of people who have committed suicide. They are all dead. I almost committed suicide because Alcoholics Anonymous destroyed my brain. Alcoholics Anonymous causes cancer and genital warts. I am obsessed by Alcoholics Anonymous. I dream about it. I don’t work. I sit around and obsess about Alcoholics Anonymous. I’m not an alcoholic. I like talking about depression, suicide, alcoholics anonymous and buckvanizm. The people in Alcoholics Anonymous are evil. There are millions of them. But I deny that. I like to deny things. I’m really smart. Alcoholics Anonymous has billions of dollars in secret vaults. They want to rule the world. Alcoholics Anonymous is responsible for the holocaust. Bill Wilson smoked cigarettes and cheated on his wife. I was arrested for not paying my child support so I decided to commit suicide. I blame Alcoholics Anonymous for causing my depression. I like to talk about myself. I like to blame other people. Alcoholics Anonymous has a 100% failure rate. Everybody is drunk. I’m losing my hair and my gums hurt. Alcoholics Anonymous caused this and I will make a video about it. Alcoholics Anonymous is an evil cult. My next video will be called Alcoholics Anonymous and child molestation. Stay tuned. One more thing; I’m really smart.

Who is Hating on A.A.?

M A, on June 9th, 2009 at 5:01 pm Said:
Hi, ***.

No, you aren’t close. I try not to spend my time trying to speak rationally to, or debating with those who have been brainwashed by the AA scriptures, because arguing religion is fruitless. I will answer this question, because it is simple.

AA is not a benign organization. AA harms many, many people – both alcoholics and their families. AA wrecks people’s lives. AA did not fail me, although I have seen it fail so many others; and, not just fail, but cause them irreparable, permanent harm. It also causes society a great amount of harm. We just want to create some awareness. That’s it.

You either don’t understand this or you won’t admit to it because you are brainwashed by this cult. You really aren’t the audience we are playing to here, although we welcome your input. We are really gearing this to those who been harmed by AA, and those who are considering AA.

Judging from the number of hits, and the feedback we have received, it seems to be working well with our target audience.

And then further we see;

M A, on June 8th, 2009 at 8:42 am Said:
Thanks, Richard.
I checked it out, but will have to go back to read the rest of his comments. Reading what McGowdog writes is like looking at the sun: I can only do it for short periods at time before I turn my head away. You know that really bad feeling of empathy for someone who makes an ass of themselves in public? That is how I feel when I read what that poor bastard writes. No doubt his AA buddies read it and think, “shut up, already; you are making us look bad”.

I... make A.A. look bad? And you make it look like a bed of roses? Really?

Tell us how you really feel about A.A., would ya M.A.?

Friendthegirl?

AA is f%#$ing enormous. If the treatment industry were a microcosm of the whole country, AA would fill the niche Christianity fills. And like Christianity, which has a mighty sense of entitlement to assert itself and influence every facet of society – public schools, court rooms, the Constitution, people’s private lives – AA/12-step has a similar sense of entitlement within the treatment industry. And it is also treated by the treatment industry with the same… Idunno… unquestioning, kid-glove indulgence that Christianity enjoys. In general, people treat Christianity with respect, even if they don’t believe it. It’s kind of funny how rational people, or people who are not Christians, will so rarely – in the arena of public discourse – call bullshit on someone’s religion, even when their opponent’s religious belief is at the very root of their demented approach to public policy.

Nobody wants to stand up and lambaste AA anymore than anyone wants to get on prime-time news and tell Christians that their religion is ridiculous and that it has no place in government (unless you’re Christopher Hitchens). If you do that, you become the immoral, godless crank, and the uproar is enormous. How long do you think it will be before our country is ready to elect an atheist President? As it stands, we just don’t take anyone seriously unless they have faith in some in strange, random, unprovable, supernatural event – among many random, strange things they could possibly believe.

In the treatment industry, public criticism of AA and 12-Step programs is rare, and for the same reasons. It is always very delicately couched – AA is just a given; it’s conventional wisdom, mainstream. I wonder how many times Ann Landers, for instance, has suggested AA to her readers, without knowing anything more about it than that AA is what drunks are supposed to do. The treatment industry is bloated with AA, and this is a horrible result. AA is a “miracle;” it’s a belief system; it’s a spiritual program. But it is not addiction treatment, anymore than Intelligent Design is science.

In order for science to consider Intelligent Design seriously, even just to engage in a debate with ID’s proponents, science itself would have to abandon its rigorous standards; the conversation would require that science actually redefine terminology in order to find some common ground for discussion. This has already happened with AA. The treatment industry takes the utter unaccountability of AA seriously. Terms like “spiritual disease” are rarely questioned. And the result of this has been disastrous for so many people.

Further, AA’s unaccountability and lack of responsibility for what actually happens in AA meetings, and the treatment industry’s dependence on, and unquestioning acceptance of AA, has generated some awful AA gestalt, which is like the gray goo. People are not being treated for their addictions in AA; they’re either becoming part of the goo or getting run over by it. As MA pointed out, we’ve seen the damage it does to people — its epidemic.

Compared to the giant machine AA has for support, and the doe-eyed acceptance it receives in general, and the millions of members and meetings, we’re really small potatoes. AA is not the underdog; it’s the Gold Standard. AA enjoys a place at the head of the grown-ups’ table, while its critics are viewed as the turds in the punchbowl.

But when we criticize AA, hold it up to the light of day, the response we receive from AAs is so interesting. You’d think they were being persecuted. An enormous institution with this much influence (yes, I know AAs deny this) should be immune from criticism? Can’t handle a little ankle biting? They do not welcome the muckrakers? They have no interest in doing a fearless moral inventory, rooting out abuses and ineffective elements, in evolving? No desire for accountability? Why? Why are the members who question what goes on in meetings told to take the cotton out of their ears? No checks and balances? No standards? Critics must have failed the program that cannot fail.

So, yeah, I’d say that our mission here is noble. We have a mess. People are being harmed in AA because it mimics the dynamics of an abusive domestic relationship* – and it is The Norm. Is wanting to “expose the truth and save the world” a ridiculous pursuit? The way you phrase that makes it seem that doing so is quixotic, silly, childish, deluded. I guess it’s the “and save the world” part. How about we leave off that part, and put it like this, “expose the truth, keep the conversation going, and hope it leads to reform.”
–ftg

This will take some time to digest and figure out. I guess Stinkin' Thinkin's religion is merely Anti A.A... sort of like the Anti-Christ, right?

M A from Stinkin Thinkin doggin me again

Quote of the Week: McGowdog
Posted on June 7, 2009 by M A
“The only reason why God is mentioned at all, is because without God, alcoholics perish. But, it’s not good to present that fact until the alcoholic sees the hopelessness of their condition in the 1st Step” – McGowdog (Stinkin’ Thinkin’ reader and AA zealot)“It all goes back to building our Program on a Truth or a lie.” – Also McGowdog, written less than twelve hours after the first quote.
Filed under: The Tool Shed Tagged: AA jackasses, AA lies, alcoholics anonymous, assholes, lies, mcgowdog, old-timers, Quotes, sober recovery, wingnuts
« The Crazies at Sober Recovery: Real Alcoholics, the Big Book and Selective Altruism
One Response
speedy0314, on June 7th, 2009 at 8:07 pm Said:
ma,
that’s classic.
i can just imagine a young m-puppy scribbling in a coloring book around dinner time & yelling, “mom, is it ‘truth’ yet?”


...

They can have their fun over there calling me an AA Jackass, an AA liar, an asshole, an old-timer??? not quite yet, a wingnut?

All I was saying there was that most alcoholics need Power outside of and beyond themselves to have removed the mental obsession that all alcoholics are said to have... remember that one? "The idea that somehow, someday he will control and enjoy his drinking..."

But the A.A. Program isn't designed to just start off with "God will fix you." No. The distinction between the alcoholic and the nonalcoholic took about 55 pages to describe.

Then M.A., what's the next thing they go into in that dreaded Big Book? That's right! God. "We Agnostics". Understand? Didday?




“It all goes back to building our Program on a Truth or a lie.” – Also McGowdog

Yup. I said that too! What was the context?




""There seems to be people who just can't get their minds around the possibility that some in A.A. are not really alcoholics and that being in A.A. can make them worse.This is what I hear. I have a hard time fathoming this possibility/truth because that's not me... it's not my experience.It all goes back to building our Program on a Truth or a lie.

__________________So does God direct us, or suggest us?

Per SR guidelines... any quotes or paraphrases are from BB 1st Edition.""




So M.A. points out a couple of my posts and does nothing really, besides putting together some childish tags at the end.

You authors over at Stinkin Thinkin seem like a bunch of three beer drinkers. Do I have to tell you again what that is?

Buy one

Spill one,

Give one away.

You guys should go grow some nuts and call me back when you've got some pubes.

You guys are not real alcoholics and you're bent because you got run out of strong A.A. meetings. So being the potential addicts or potential hard-drinkers that you may be, you figure the alternate recovery programs like SMART, Life Ring, and Rational Recovery will work on real alcoholics too and A.A. will go down like your mothers and sisters on prom night? Sorry. Those programs may be great for the hard drinker, but here's what a world renowned doctor said about A.A.:

"What you say about the general hopelessness of the average alcoholic's plight is, in my opinion, correct...Had you offered yourselves as patients at this hospital, I would not have taken you, if I had been able to avoid it. People like you are too heartbreaking. Though not a religious person, I have profound respect for the spiritual approach in such cases as yours. For most cases, there is virtually no other solution."

"It goes back to building our program on a Truth and not on a lie."

Yup. That's right. If you're a hard drinker or a non-alcoholic, you cannot recover from alcoholism. Just as a non-cancer patient can't recover from cancer. But there's a lot of non-alkies in A.A. and I'd sure like to send them your way. They seem deserving of your fate.

For I have yet to meet the guy or gal in A.A. that admits they are just hard drinkers and are there for the bad coffee or the strange. So why do hard drinkers waste away in AA? Loneliness?

I asked my recovered alcoholic/recovered addict couselor buddy and spiritual guide from the local treatment center why he takes his clients to the strong open A.A. meeting and not to N.A., Smart, Life Ring, Rational Recovery, etc. and he said because they don't work for the real alcoholic and the real addict. So that leads me to believe you folks over at stinkin aren't even real addicts. Then I asked him if he'd ever heard of secular recoveries and he said all they do is sit around and bitch about A.A.! Just like you guys!