Who/What is/was Stinkin'-Thinkin' at Wordpress?

MA
























Orange

A fellow poster/author here asked what is this ST we refer to from time to time.  I answered him in a comment and decided to make that two-part comment the current post topic.  So... my current view of our friends across cyberworld...



They are technically the reason for our existence here on this blog... our reason for our banning from Sober Recovery when you get right down to it. I don't blame anybody for that fact... it just is.  Add: Z and one unmentionable girl-troll were the ones who baited us and brought about my banning and some soon followed me as a seeming stance on principle and some have joined me here and have been made authors and part/administrators of the blog.  But... they have their antonomy and have since recovered from the purpose of the blog and have no axe to grind.  But they are always welcome here as they know.  I'm quite sure those minions from ST and perhaps Orange Papers and elsewhere infiltrate http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/alcoholism on a regular basis and flood the topics with anti/XA rhetoric with a cycling bunch of new users/trolls and stir the pot from what's left of that sickened and soft-petered recovery site... no offense, just a notion I have.  No proof of this, just a notion.


It started off with me having some stuff brought to my attention. We'd post away at sober recovery and some snarky smart-asses were mocking our posts and bashing our dedication to spreading the A.A. message via the program outlined in the A.A. book... and answering questions from a few that dare attempt to follow that simple path.


I came onto this site called "DonewithAA" at wordpress which became "Stinkin'-Thinkin' dot com and the rest is history. There was MA, aka Mark... an Adolph Hitler mustache superimposed onto our beloved Bill W-wearin' author, ftg aka friendthegirl aka Ilse, and of course Speedy.


As we responded to the at times welcomed notoriety, it was soon apparent what they were up to; bait us into anger, they'd then sit back and watch us retaliate in anger, then they'd point their bony fingers at us as being unserene crazy mean-spirited assholes. As we whipped their asses at debate at every turn, they tried to "project" their own weak techniques and accusations at us... with words like "gas lighting", "red-herring", bait-and-switch, ad hominems, strawman arguments... etc... just a bunch of stuff they've burped up from Agent Orange via Orange Papers.


Then... as time went on, they amassed a bunch of anti/XAers ("anti AAers" from the start and "ex-AAers"... experts who been there done that and are now more qualified and more sober than you and I and cannot hear any arguments for or against from you or me because they are just frankly better than us... thus my abbreviation "anti/XAer") who were downright nasty to me, RobB, Jim, TonyJ, Karl aka Cuda aka PinkCuda... and they were somewhat cordial to Joe I think.


But the bottom line is they have been honking on and on about being anti-censorship, welcoming of debate, and open-minded to looking at both sides. But what we’ve found quickly is that they hate anything pro-A.A., hate actual debate, refuse to accept any evidence against their and Agent Orange half-truths and outright lies, etc. They built a site around it and built a community of folks who frankly get off on trying to put us and bring us down. They search tirelessly for ways of spinning anything recovery or A.A. related to make the A.A. fellowship to look like a bunch of tyrant white male sex abusing raping 13th stepping sick old bastards who want to control and abuse its poor poor victims who get sent to A.A. or come searching A.A. for a gleam of hope.


They are endlessly finding ways to reiterate and add to claims from Agent Orange about what a sex-crazed belladonna induced lunatic that Bill W was and they have an equally vicious character assassination for Dr Bob and anything A.A. We all know these guys were never saints. They even said so.


They go on tirelessly to reiterate Agent Oranges’ claims that A.A. has a success rate of 5% or less and that doing nothing will lead to the same spontaneous remission as the aforementioned program. They spout the good works of many other mostly secular recovery organizations but spend no time actually directing people to how and where these programs are doing better works within the annuls of recovery… because frankly they are too busy bashing A.A. and bullying its inhabitants.


Do I sound dramatic? Well… being the site is temporarily gone… I have not much proof. Some of my peeps will shed light on the accuracy of my findings/experiences with these folks.



I’ve had an on again/off again/on again positive relationship with FTG and MA. I do not claim to be their equal in writing techniques, dedication to their cause, or their ability to grow a huge following. They whipped our asses in that regard. But we hang in here and my/our main purpose for this here blog is to have a place to hang your hat and speak your piece. I don’t claim to keep this place free of censorship. If you come in here and call me names and get nasty with me, I’m gonna censor that. Everyone who knows me knows that I can get nasty, mean, and flat out rude to those who cross me. I’d like to think I’ve been baited and falsely judged from time to time, but whatever. Don’t recall… water under the bridge, right? If you threaten me, I’ll answer the threat back. If you threaten one of my colleagues in recovery… or MA and ftg on here, I’ll send you away as best I can. There’s no room for that shit.


I feel bad for the crap MA and ftg got into with an irate and perhaps dangerous poster. I don’t know both sides of the story, but this guy seemed to find an actual address for ftg and perhaps threatened her physically. She and those at ST could have probably fought this guy right into incarceration if they/she wanted to. This was not the cause for the site to temporarily/permanently shut down. MA and ftg were looking to take a break and head in other directions for now. It’s just coincidence. But I feel for them and wish them well.


We actually have a common goal. We want to help see that drunks and addicts and victims of those afflictions get the help they need. We see the path to that end differently. To the other “minions” of the site who not only see our path as wrong but also leave no room for our worthiness, I say, “Good day.” But something strange happened between some of those minions and I… they started to see I wasn’t such a bad guy after all. They just see me as mislead and think I’m too smart to be snowed-over by the A.A. program. To them I say, “Come see the A.A. that I know. As far as MOTR stuff and all the bad A.A. that’s out there… and the knuckleheads that make such a mess out of trying to control people and the poor folks who truly are in need of and want help and willing to do something about it… I understand that most of A.A. is a huge mess. But even still, it works for some and provides something for others that we cannot explain.


A.A. should be totally voluntary and the courts/judicial system, healthcare industry etc., should let some of us explain what A.A. can do and cannot do and how it is to be 100% voluntary and how it’s not just a place to dump criminals to be punished and a place where children can be babysat and raised. A.A. is for drunks who need and want the help that A.A. has to offer.


It works pretty good for me and that’s that.


http://goodbye.stinkin-thinkin.com


Goodbye ST. Go well.
An aside for Gunthar:




That's right. Stanton is a former board member of MM and a former MM apologist. Sorry for my previous claims. Apologist and A.A. accuser. So he no longer actively supports Audrey, but wants to make it clear that it's probably A.A.s fault for her drinking too much due to the dangers of... abstinence? Does abstinence lead to binging or something? I thought binging was for underage drinkers. I'm confused.









One more thing about abstinence... as some anti/XAers are claiming abstinence out there... but not all. It's ok to be abstinent... so long as you don't do it in A.A. To do so in A.A. is cultish and harmful to others... aka causes more harm than good. Oh, and don't preach now. It's no fair to preach at anybody these days!









In Stanton's defense, I understand what he's saying; the woman who drove drunk and killed people is at fault, not A.A. and not MM and not the car and not the wine. But... he believes that had she been able to voice her situation freely and without guilt... that she was drinking to excess and that she needed help... like perhaps a ride somewhere so she didn't drive drunk... the harm would have been removed. As O'Reilly says, the sober AAer would not have driven drunk anyway.









What's the upshot of the story for me? The founder of MM drove drunk and killed two people. So... is she special? The anti/XAer and secular type folks want to bewail the institution of A.A. and its claim to spirituality and any talk of "disease". But they're willing to agree that folks like Audrey might be different that others. For some moderation works and for some, not so. Well you can't have it both ways. Either there are physical ramifications or there are not. You want us to believe that it's all culture and behavior. I think it's more complicated than that... as in perhaps physical as well as something perhaps physiological. Pretty much what A.A. has been saying since 1935.

The CDCR has ordered parole officers to find alternative programs for such parolees.

Really?

I don't think so. Here's my opinion about this; Tell the 3-strikes-you're-out-convicted-meth-head to go start his own secular drug program and quit blaming the courts, POs, cops, DOC, the treatment center, etc. for your sore brown starfish.



You're a druggie punk and you and your lawyer found a little loophole in the system thanks to the 1st Amendment. Good for you.

Conclusion; if you're an atheist, don't use A.A. or N.A., C.A., etc.

Request; please go out and start a secular alternative and take your atheists with you. If your secular program can be the least bit altruistic, maybe you'll encourage going to the jails, hospitals, courts, treatment centers, etc. and finding your own kind and offering up a place for them to get clean/sober/etc. without the use of God or Higher Power or whatever it is you find offensive and get on with NOT BREAKING THE FUCKING LAWS OF OUR FINE NATION UNDER GOD YOU FUCKING HEATHENS!

So you win! A.A. is a religion and A.A. is about God. Now go fuck yourselves, but don't expect tax exemption for your newly created religion, Atheism. Well actually, I could care less.

What I care about is the untreated meth-head who is looking to rape your daughter and snatch the purse from your wife at the local 7-11 and drag her 30 feet while she tries to steal her own purse back but you're in an 8 day spun-out meth binge as you drive off.

Now maybe, just maybe, A.A., N.A., C.A., and other God-based 12 Step programs can stop bending over backwards to fill the needs of the misbehaving world. Go ahead. Start your own programs and leave A.A. alone. Go now and find an empty building in your local strip mall, get a few tables, a few chairs, a coffee pot or a tea pot, a few slogans, a few secular druggies and/or drunks, and a hat, and start a meeting. Run your Godless program anyway you want, make mistakes, come up with traditions to tighten things down, and maybe you'll soon surpass A.A. and sway the courts and hospitals to send some clients your way.

You ought to have a decent base already to go now; Agent Orange followers, Stinkin' Thinkin' followers, the Blame Guys, about 90% of the folks over at Sober Roverery...

[s]elf Bless you all and have a wonderful day.

Lie #2 in the mind of Orange

Date: 01/15/10
From: McGowdog Staff
To: Agent Orange
RE: Reading Skills Assessment

Dear Mr. Orange,
We regret to inform you that you have failed your basic reading and comprehension assessment. It was very difficult to grade your work because the comprehension test indicated that you only read part of the original material. You have demonstrated your inability to take the provided material and pass a written test indicating that the material was read and understood. In fact some of the material provided by you indicates that several answers were fabricated from scratch.

Not only were there misquotes that did not quote the entire original source, the author was also not represented correctly.

Below you will find some examples of the reason we had to fail your writings.

Best of Luck in your future endeavors
Sincerely
McGowdog Staff

#2
If you are having a problem with drinking too much alcohol, then you have a disease which only a spiritual experience will conquer. (The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William Wilson, page 44.)

Really???
Come on Orange! You can do better than this sophomoric type of information bastardizing.

You're in direct compliance with the Karl Rove Debate Techniques which we might have to rename.

They will now be called the Agent Orange Debating Techniques. You should be honored.

Lesson #2: Put incorrect words into your opponent's mouth.

Lesson #3: Misconstrue your opponents' message purposely so as to build a straw man argument that is easier to knock down than your opponent's real argument.

All other Bullshit Artists must stand in awe at your ability to distort fact and present your rendition as the actual fact.

Unfortunately you only barfed up part of what you swallowed. The real Quote goes as such:

"If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an
illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer. "

Do you see the difference??

Your Quote:

If you are having a problem with drinking too much alcohol, then you have a disease which only a spiritual experience will conquer.
(The Big Book, 3rd Edition, William Wilson, page 44.)

Here's how it really goes

If, when you honestly want to, you find you cannot quit entirely, or if when drinking, you have little control over the amount you take, you are probably alcoholic. If that be the case, you may be suffering from an illness which only a spiritual experience will conquer.

Now do you see it??????

First off we have the Illness/Disease issue which you can't get through your thick head.

Hospitals are full of mentally “ill” people. Never once does anyone refer to them as mentally “diseased” People. Does that help?

Anorexia is killing girls around the world. It's an "Illness". They are “ill” because the condition centers in the mind. Just as Bill said our illness centers in the mind.

"Illnesses" center in the mind and "Diseases" are centered in the body.
Are you beginning to understand the difference yet? How much simpler can it get?

Here's this beauty from the book:

As you can see the quote is comprised mostly of single syllable words for your reading ease.

Pg 23
Therefore, the main problem of the alcoholic centers in his mind, rather than in his body.

I would hardly expect you to quote that correctly.

Try practicing this in front of a mirror! Illness, mind!! Disease, body!! Say it over and over and click your heels together three times.

Moving right along you left this turd laying on the floor:


"You are powerless over alcohol. You can't quit. Your life is unmanageable. There you are, facing ruin again, and still you can't stop. The more you struggle, the worse you get. Even if you quit drinking, we can prophesy that you will suffer from strange mental blank spots where will-power and self-knowledge will be useless, and you will start drinking again without even knowing what you are doing. Your defense must come from a Higher Power. (The Big Book, 3rd & 4th Editions, William G. Wilson, pages 59, 41-42, and 43.)"

You provided a link when we clicked on "Mental BlankSpots" and took us to a story on Pg 43

Here's an example of where you took a story and quoted Bill as being the one that said it. It wasn't. It was Jim and I'm not going to research it right now. But it wasn't Bill as you stated.

You provided another link to click where you reference yourself. Cool All we have to do is click Will Conquer and we get to see you mistake Illness for Disease once again. No the AMA doesn't recognize any Disease that only a spiritual experience will conquer.

So, I agree with you on this one. Too bad it's an illness.

Then off you go with this;
"But this is the dogma, one of the core beliefs, upon which Alcoholics Anonymous is based. A.A. teaches that you can't 'just quit drinking' or 'just abstain'. You must join A.A., do the Twelve Steps, and have a "spiritual experience", in order to quit drinking".

Uhhh! Here's what the book says;
"To show others precisely how we quit is the main purpose of this book.

If You want what We have and are ready to go to any length to get it then you are ready to take certain steps."


The Book also goes on to say that they are just suggestions...

Meaning they are not absolutely necessary for sobriety.

The Disease Concept and Anti-AA problems

I wanted to talk about the 'disease' concept and the anti-AA. For some the 'disease' concept is an excuse not to use a 'spiritual' program. For others it's a sign that AA doesn't know what it's talking about.








The argument is that no doctor would tell you to pray and meditate if you had cancer.


I am your doctor, now do what I say!




Bill Wilson is alive and living in Argentina with Adolf Hitler


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Hello everyone. I’m really smart. I have a youtube channel called blamethenile. I make videos about alcoholics anonymous. Alcoholics Anonymous is a dangerous cult that makes people commit suicide. I know thousands of people who have committed suicide. They are all dead. I almost committed suicide because Alcoholics Anonymous destroyed my brain. Alcoholics Anonymous causes cancer and genital warts. I am obsessed by Alcoholics Anonymous. I dream about it. I don’t work. I sit around and obsess about Alcoholics Anonymous. I’m not an alcoholic. I like talking about depression, suicide, alcoholics anonymous and buckvanizm. The people in Alcoholics Anonymous are evil. There are millions of them. But I deny that. I like to deny things. I’m really smart. Alcoholics Anonymous has billions of dollars in secret vaults. They want to rule the world. Alcoholics Anonymous is responsible for the holocaust. Bill Wilson smoked cigarettes and cheated on his wife. I was arrested for not paying my child support so I decided to commit suicide. I blame Alcoholics Anonymous for causing my depression. I like to talk about myself. I like to blame other people. Alcoholics Anonymous has a 100% failure rate. Everybody is drunk. I’m losing my hair and my gums hurt. Alcoholics Anonymous caused this and I will make a video about it. Alcoholics Anonymous is an evil cult. My next video will be called Alcoholics Anonymous and child molestation. Stay tuned. One more thing; I’m really smart.