I'm actually surprised the thread lasted as long as it did... but after Carol and Company chopped it up, who knows how it ended? Sort of a funny reminder how some winded up here from time to time. I'd also like to make you aware that I was first directed to this topic from SR by none other than ST. So... it's a hot topic... one I think we are mature enough to discuss here. So, here goes;
The OP writes;
What does everyone think to this grassroots movement that seems to be happening in US to make people aware of as someone coined it 'the dark underbelly of AA' or as i would like to see it rougue individuals.
Does this flyer/poster seem alarmist and frighten people away, or does it raise important issues for newcomers as well as reminding longer term folk as well?
I know some groups have introduced wording into the start of the meeting about 13 stepping etc because people are worried about some of the things that have happened.
What are people's experiences in the past, is this new or has this been tried before? Have people seen other things happen on the ground or are there changes they would like to see?
So... a seemingly level-headed but proA.A.er says this,
Yeah I don't see any problem with individual meetings making a statement such as this. I can see why it has not been accepted by the GSO though, there is no message of recovery there, and it has nothing at all to do with AA as a program.
As far as 13th stepping... I don't get it, people get all up in arms about "Ohhh (s)he only has however much time, (s)he shouldn't be talking to them...." I've never understood this putting an arbitrary time stamp on new people, like after a year they are magically functional, after a year god suddenly removes the obsession? I had always been taught that I am only a newcomer until I've done the work and had a spiritual awakening. Sometimes this may occur in a week, sometimes in a year.
Also, why is the assumption that there is always distinct "victim" in these situations? Does this behavior not speak volumes to the state of both parties, that both are so desperate for a distraction, both more than willing to wrongly place their reliance upon another human that they mutually make the decision to do whatever feels good at the moment. Just because one hasn't had a drink for a while does not mean that they are healthy. And, to that end, the book is pretty clear on how to handle such people-as any other sick person.
In my experience, at least with the dudes, I pull them aside and pose this that type of question to them, especially if I notice that its a cyclic kinda behavior. Offer to help them do the work, again if necessary. Beyond that, its not my job to make sure these people are "safe". Its simply my job to carry a message to them, and yes, part of that message is that you cannot transmit something you haven't got, soooo if you haven't got it.... then stay away from the ladies.
Then the anti/XAers come back with allegations of the Midtown Group and Carol comes back with an admittedly nice take,
The MidTown allegations were investigated by the D.C. police
who declined to make arrest due to lack of evidence.
so please let's not get all tangled up with that.
The proAAer was given the final word before Dee boarded the thread up and sent the posters back up to bed without any porridge...
I'm sorry you had such a bad experience, it sounds like you were in a really ****** position that never should have happened. Also sorry to hear you harbor such anger against a fellowship of people that had nothing to do with whatever happened instead of the individuals involved. If you were that 15 year old then police action hopefully was taken and you got your day in court. That kind of behavior should be stopped.
As far as being a dumping ground, you're right there are people in the rooms who likely are not alcoholics but get court ordered there. The unfortunate thing is, as you've seen on other threads here, there is no sure fire way to challenge these people and ask them to leave on that basis. Alcoholism is essentially a self diagnosis for the purposes of AA.
However, there are many who truly are alcoholics who happen to be sex offenders or other "low lifes" and there is no way we can or should prohibit these people from attending meetings. They are there for the same solution as the rest of us, they deserve the same shot at this thing as that "innocent" person walking in with a clean record.
Oh, and when it gets into breaking the law, then that is another issue. Then, there is something tangible where we as a society, outside and including the fellowship have come together to agree on a norm. And as such authorities should be contacted and people should be reported, just as if it was a youth sports league, school, etc.
But, the stereotypic "low life" "preying" on a new girl... sorry, he deserves his seat as much as she does if they are both alcoholic.
So, what's my take on the deal?
In A.A., we are a bunch of wretched sinners! I personally would like to encourage any lurker, AAer, potential AAer, etc. to go to an A.A. meeting and just observe. Before you judge your bretheren... which Jesus says you must do... but to do so carefully... look first at your own motive... your own life.
Judge not lest you be judged... but woe unto you hippocrite... that spites thy brother for the splinter in his eye... whilst not first removing the mote in thine own eye! ... or some such thing. I paraphrase!
I think the Carpenter rocks! I'm going to go to a meeting tonight and recite the Lord's Prayer extra loudly in His honor! I'm gonna say "Evil" extra fucking loudly for the pussy-fuck new-ageys who say "ego" or "self" or some such bullshit.
We humans are evil! We're evil every fucking time we avoid pain and suffering of looking at our own mortality and pathetic petty fucking lives and when we use our own mental abnormalities or whatever is handy to cast our guilt or pain out on another to avoid our own quest to not be uncomfortable.
If somebody propositions you and it's not welcomed, kick them in the fucking balls and scream "RAPE!"
What the fuck is so hard about that? If you don't want to be 13th Stepped , quit spreading your legs!
How fucking simple is this?
Same thing goes with your money. If someone tries to con you, walk away and or say "No!" or scream "Beggar Beggar Beggar!" and point to the offender!
I empower you, with my pompus arrogance. Or you can hang up the sign, but you need to first post the sign to your own fucking head! Your own motives start with you.
Do you want to go to this A.A. meeting or not? If so, why? Is it to preach your anti-Christian agenda? Is it to score? Are you lonely? Or is it because you might have "it" and want to help your fellow people? Or might it be because you're a real alky who doesn't know what you're gonna do to stay sober and you are honestly afraid to drink again because you don't yet have "it" and you might be vaguely aware that you cannot not drink booze left to your own devices?
Mopar tuneup pics
Some update pics on my Chryler. It's going back under the knife. Take note of the exhaust (front) valve for cylinder #5... how it sticks up a bit. Yup. Valve seat is shot and I'm getting a new valve job. This is why I was driving around on 7 cylinders. Not too shabby, but I'm looking forward to getting all 8 up and running again.