Monday, June 28, 2010

Alcoholics Anonymous heads down to San Antonio

Bear down

Kurt Rambis hijacks a nice thread in the 12 Step subforum over at Sober Recovery. The "Wired" article gets brought up there too. They're gonna see my comments. They get another opportunity to ignore me. Fun fun. Anyway, here's a good example of a wacko anti/wanna be XAer making an utter foo out of himself while parroting his Stinkin'Thinkin' buddies' rhetoric.

  • Also can you tell me what the truth is and provide the proper (stand up in a court of law) evidense
  • Personally if I am going to obey the commands of AA, I like prove it works, of which there is none.
  • Luckily I live in an area where there other treatment options are available.
  • 12 steps and big book was harmful to me.
  • To be fare ***** most of comments were aimed ***** and *****
  • ... other ways of sobriety then would realise that the 12 steps are but suggestions.
  • A newcommer is a newcommer (ie you don't know anything about them) don't try to be there psychologist by forcing what you think is best for them
  • ...then we have to look at statistical evidense. Of which there is none.
  • You really don't listen do you.
  • People like you You really don't listen do you. could be responsible for people who shouldn't be in AA comitting suicide. How your conscious is clean is beyond me.
  • Not many people new of his ...
  • paramount to acheiving long term good sobriety [New rule... i before e except after ch]
  • You are not qualified to make judgements about why people go back drinking. Bull fucking shit. You're not fucking qualified Kurt Rambis.

ProAAer steps in and calls Kurt Rambis on his bullshit; "Why do you wish to hijack it under the guise of helping people?"

C'mon Kurt! Please!

  • There are about 1 million A.A. members in the U.S., according to the official A.A. survey. There is not even an accurate account of how many people came to meetings, and as anyone who has a clue, meeting attendance does not mean one has tried AA, that only means you sat your butt in a chair for an hour.

    As far as the claim on the Orange Papers that AA has a less than 2% success rate. That would mean that 99 million raving alcoholics would have had to have come to A.A. meetings and failed, to balance out that paltry 1 million who got sober.

    The A.A. Triennial Membership Surveys for 1977 through 1989 show that, of those people who are in their first month of attending A.A. meetings, 26% will still be attending A.A. meetings at the end of that year. That means that we would have to run 4 million people roughly through a few A.A. meetings in order to come out with 1 million people who stay in A.A. and get a bit of sobriety. With 10 million people in the U.S. classified as alcohol dependent, that means that we would have to conclude that nowadays about 40% of the alcoholics in the U.S. end up with a little bit of contact with A.A. at one time or another during their lives. And in fact, as a ball park estimate, this 40% figure matches up at least reasonably well with some very well done National Institute of Health studies.

    Now having said all that, I could care less about statistics.

Ok, now back to Kurt Rambis;

  • The article you quote is pure propoganda I'm graduate of mathematics I understand statistics more than the person who wrote this article. It would be laughed it by clinical scientists
  • AA has never ever been prooved to cure people of alcoholism, ever.

Prooved? Hmmm. Really? "Graduate of mathematics"..., prooved? Hmmm.

  • Anybody ever heard of the placebo affect. Clearly none of you on here understand it

Ok fucking genius... well, I'll just let a proAAer from SR take it from here;

It's the placebo effect, not affect, and funny you should trot that out in this discussion as there is tremendous argument in the medical community over it's effectiveness.

And since I don't regulate myself here... fucking DUMBASS! Sue the fucksticks who awarded you your "Graduate of mathematics"!

Another proAAer at SR:

Hey Kurt...

Thanks for coming on the 12 STEP FORUM and bashing our program.

I hope you find some peace in your life. Maybe you've even turned a few people off recovery in general with your confusingly sharp comments.

I have tried quitting AA dozens of times. The problem is, even though it is fallible. It is still the best recovery I have found so far.

SMART and Rational Recovery are little more than psychological tricks&tips that only help those who never drank to the point of developing all 3 aspects of full-blown alcoholism;


You guys over at Sober Recovery really need to be careful of this shit. This is the kind of stuff that gets you in trouble with the TOS, even though you're being baited and flamed by a retard who can't keep himself sober, but likes to make a mockery of A.A. and is motivated by his anti/XAer buddies who mimick Agent Orange jargon.

Sunday, June 27, 2010

Secret of AA: After 75 Years, We Don’t Know How It Works


So there's an article in Wired here

Good to see some comments pro and con. It took me a couple of days to digest the whole thing. Reading the comments from some of our detractors, A.A. must have been shed in a slightly positive light. Some of the article was bunk, but they seemed to be fairly open about different sources in putting together a biography of A.A. from 35' to now. Some things I agree with pretty well and some things were just wrong, but the proAA comments addressed those errors pretty well.

The detractors spoke their piece as well. You know? The typical 5% blah blah blah religion blahblahblah cult blah blah blah 13th stepping screwing his secretary smoking bastard blahblahblah. LSD!


Like I said to some "ankle biter" on youtube,

What do you care about how much pussy Bill W. had? You're not his love-child are you? What do you care about his lungs and his bank account? What do you care about how much acid he dropped?

How about these stats? 1)How many times did he get drunk and wreck his motorcycle or car since his Towns experience? 2)How many black eyes did he give Lois while sober? 3)How many times did he burn a house down due to his smoking?

How many drunks did he help to not do the above ? What about Dr. Bob? Would we be having this conversation had Dr. Bob outlived Bill W? Did the two complement each other pretty well?

That was in response to this comment of his;

He 13th stepped more pussy than you or I've had hot dinners...Screwed 'em 2 X 2 since the Oxford Groups he did...Took more acid than the Grateful Dead ever did between 1958 and 1961...Chain smoked until his terminal breath in an iron lung...Left 10% of his Big Book royalties to his mistress...Demanded whiskey on his deathbed...I dunno if this guy had the answer to liberation from addiction and living an ethical life...What do you think...?
Hammersley1967 1 day ago

No exaggeration there btw. I'm sure he tripped 50 times a week and fucked more women than Wilt Chamberlin, Steve Garvey, and Magic Johnson (until he became Tragic Johnson) combined. Here's the difference between you and Lois; she didn't bitch till eternity about it!

They're starting to sound like fucking parrots to me. It's the same bullshit over and over and over again.

There's some fucked up shit going on in A.A. to be for sure. There's some real fucking hair-lips and han-han-hoey's in A.A. But if you ain't in it to put the bullshit aside, roll up your sleeves and help them out, step aside and shut your fucking holes!

You don't know how it fucking works! We do! Step aside son. We've got work to do and we're gonna do it.

Here, answer me this fucking question, anti/XA/AA Hater brainiacs; of those 95% who fail in A.A., how many of them are getting what they want? What percentage is that?

Wednesday, June 16, 2010

If given the chance, how would you propose to fix A.A.?

Let's see where we are at with A.A. What can we all agree on?

Some people are fine with A.A. as it is now. For whatever it's worth, some people can come to a meeting and take it as it comes. They come with the expectations of getting a little fellowship, maybe sharing their ESH if called on, helping with the coffee, the tea, the chairs, etc... they put their buck or two in the basket, maybe they're on a committee for local events, maybe they're the meeting secretary, treasurer, etc. and when the meeting is over, they chat with their friends, maybe even go up to the new man/woman and offer them a word of wisdom... some hope, and they leave to continue on their daily activities.

Some people come to a certain group, that's their home group, they've done a set of steps, and either stay on the firing lines of helping new drunks get into the book and doing steps via sponsorship, or maybe they spend more time on the other legacies of the triangle at the district, local, or area level. Maybe they're specialized in bringing meetings and/or speakers into the local treatment centers, jails, hospitals, etc.

Some people are pure big book thumpers and spend more time doing steps and/or taking others through the steps and don't get involved with A.A. at the local, district, area, or regional level and concerns themselves not at all with what goes on with AAWS/GSO. They've got their damned Big Book and their group and God and a new drunk and what else could they need?

We've got 12 steps, 12 traditions, and 12 concepts with which to make this all happen. How is A.A. doing with money? Honestly? Is the 2 bucks I put into the basket being spent correctly? Are we giving too much to AAWS? Not enough? Are we giving too much to the district, area, local CSO? Too little? What happens when the basket doesn't bring enough? Do book sales pick up the slack? What about the Grapevine? Should we save it? Let it die? Have you ever read the thing? Not I. I hear it's good for those who can't make many meetings... sort of the meeting in print. I have no idea how it's received. Looking forward, should it be tossed, kept, revised? Can it be made to sustain itself... not lose money?

Now... with proper one-on-one sponsorship or group cooperation and/or participation and representation of groups at the various levels... can duties by properly delegated to where we can all work as a team to better apply our steps, traditions, concepts so that... going forward... we can start to address and amend problems that our detractors have been bringing to our attention?

What are some problems that we can all agree on?

  • Better communication with and from our "friends"... the clergy, hospitals, legal system, counseling centers and treatment centers, etc. So basically PI/CPC work and ????
  • Properly labeling specific groups/meetings at the CSO level so that it can be "advertised" as it is so those seeking a particular meeting can find what fits them best. For example, say someone wants to know where to go if they are tending towards a more secular meeting, a meeting that caters to newcomers, a meeting that demonstrates "singleness of purpose" and reads the blue card for closed meetings, a group that does steps on a yearly basis, a group that uses Christian prayers shamelessly, a group where women are not outnumbered 2 or 3 to 1, a meeting that does/does not sign court slips, a meeting that is inclusive to alcoholics/addicts/ alanons/ etc., but is still based on the A.A. book, etc. We know that no group follows the traditions perfectly. We do know that there are meetings that have no group conscience and are loose with the traditions but may cater to certain groups of people, like those from the treatment center, those who show up on their lunch break, those who are local to the meeting place, etc. Then there are groups who interpret the 12 traditions the way they see fit and they have a group conscience. They've decided to run the meeting a certain way and they are accountable to the group. They take care of their own. They decide how many meetings they're going to offer per week, what kind of coffee/tea they will serve, where the money goes, how the chair person will get picked, what will be discussed, read, etc. This info can be made available at the CSO level so professionals, counselors, services throughout the community can know where to send someone who might want to check out a certain kind of meeting.
  • Accountability... how is the newcomer approached? What do we do with the suffering alcoholic who doesn't know what an alcoholic really is? What do we do with the suffering alcoholic who has other problems? What do we do with the suffering alcoholic who doesn't want to stop drinking yet... but must come to the meeting to get someone off their back... husband, wife, children, siblings, doctor, therapist, judge, cop, P.O. etc.? What do we do with the person who just wants to check out the meeting? What if they're alanon, but wound up in a closed meeting by mistake? Are we up to date on other meetings in our community? Can we direct them to the proper place.
  • What do we do with people on medication? Honestly? Do some of us play doctor? Do we just not want to deal with/sponsor them? Are there people we can send them to that can better sponsor/guide them in the steps? Do they just need to be left alone and called on to share from where they are at... to vent? Should they be in a certain group and not others? Can we be educated on what to/what not to do with them?
  • Can we set aside a group that puts everything on the wall... and doesn't get teased or bashed for being a "slogan"/MOTR group? A place where Meeting Makers Make It and Put the plug in the jug can reign free?
  • Can we have an A.A. hotline to the local police station incase of abuse, fighting, chair throwing, etc.? Do some meetings/groups need such a thing?
  • What about cussing? If you're in a church basement, do we need to put up a "No Cussing" sign? I don't know why this is, but the three strongest groups that I know of, the guys and gals cuss like sailors. But... nobody seems to be offended. There are other groups who put it on the wall or into their meeting format to refrain.
  • Should there be citations awarded to the most "cultish" group on a monthly/yearly basis? Would some be offended if their group got labeled a cult? Prideful?

In my experience, there's enough fish in the sea to accommodate just about any/everybody in A.A. If we spent less time pointing our fingers at others and found the place we fit... instead of bashing each other, maybe our detractors would see us as... human.

Let's say... the anti/XAers don't think this is enough. This is outside of the realm of what A.A. does, but what would be the impact on A.A. if ... at the professional level... treatment centers, institutions, judicial systems, etc. were required to offer A.A./12 Step as only one option out of many? What would be the pros/cons of offering information and counsel to see where different types of people fit? Who is the best fit for the S.M.A.R.T. program, Harms Reduction methods, Rational Recovery, Life Ring, Peele, A.A., N.A., etc.? Also... for the anti/XAers, what if we did a group by group accountability for all methods showing what are success stats are? At least for the groups/meetings/programs that have no problem stating their sobriety date. Some don't view days sober as success vs drinking or "slipping" as a failure and this can be respected across the board. If total abstinence is the goal of that program, it can be categorized as such.

Would it screw the whole 12 Step process up if it wasn't totally voluntary? Would it help the quality of meetings/groups?

Team McGowdog

What say you?

Sunday, June 6, 2010

Do XAers mean us no harm?

"One mom at a time"? That was a nice touch. I'm sure it went exactly like that. You had a member named Ben, with few teeth, he was a big book thumper, but he hurled all the slogans at you, drove a 10 speed. You say he had a really nice 10-speed? They make 21 speeds now... since for over 20 years. Are you saying his bike is as old as his teeth? Are you judging Ben's material accomplishments?

If you knew the antics of Ben so well, why did you take your mom there? Did you and your mom come up with the "Motherfuckers Anonymous" blast and discuss these sexual positions together? Did she help you carve out the "One mom at a time" plaque?

That's really sick shit you folks resort to. Let's see how many antiAAer claims you punched with that one vid, shall we?

  • Ben was there with his "disciples"... his few teeth... and his 10 speed bicycle... in the fucking snow...
  • Ben hurls MOTR Treatment Center slogans at you and you pull out that big old Brown Stamp collection...
  • Betty... recovering crack whore with a nasty cough... but you sit right there next to her of course
  • You somehow know she used dirty needles because don't all reformed crack whores brag about this?
  • Oh, and she spits when she talks...
  • And you have to hold hands with her because you are always stuck sitting next to her... during that Lord's Prayer...
  • The Lord's Prayer is a "spiritual prayer", right?
  • Ben determines what's spiritual and what's religious
  • Momma's boy tells us how a Big Book Discussion meeting is just like a good ole Southern Baptist service!
  • Betty knows the difference between God and Gawd! too.
  • Betty told you to shut your mouth and listen... Sure she did! We believe ya!
  • Ben threatened you with death and hurled a "Fake it till you make it blast!" Wow, the Quinella!
  • Ben knows a lot about A.A. and he knows what you should and shouldn't do... a good sponsor has tons of advice.
  • Momma's Boy is gonna go back to church, but not if Ben doesn't approve! After all, he's got that killer 10 Speed and few teeth!
  • Momma's Boy asked Ben for permission to quit smoking... told to go try to quit jerking off instead
  • Ole Betty has good advice too... meetings, meditation, and masterbation... sound advice from a Crack Whore who spits...
  • Got them meds, because isn't every AAer dually diagnosed? Got them meds and need to have old Ben tell me to stop using them... he drives that killer 10 speed and only has 3 teeth... in the snow... he's gotta be my favorite mentor...
  • Tried to kill yourself, Ben told you that you were selfish... and somehow wound up doing a Youtube vid! Wow! God is great, huh?
  • Them alkies in A.A. are sure powerless... and also liars, cheats and thiefs...
  • So there's momma's boy... with his mom... next to the spitting ex-Crack Whore... with Ben shouting slogans to you... and now you've got motherfucker talking about how he'd like to do his mom.
  • Unusual meeting... but you brought mom along...
  • Mom was shocked...
  • Momma's boy was gonna be the hero and steer the meeting back to the proper topic... experiences related to alcohol... but old Ben told you to not take other people's inventories...
  • Then Ben follows that up with a "Your best thinking got you here" blast
  • Old Ben told you to sit down, shut up, and listen... and because you've known him for all of two weeks, you take his advice.
  • Nice opportunity to pimp the "Small Book" and Agent Orange at http://www.orange-papers.org/, because... this guy has a lot of hope for drunks, right?
  • Something clicked, then Momma's Boy realized that A.A. is a religious cult... or a religion when the courts make a judgement on it... but back to a cult when dealing with vulnerable drunks... because who doesn't like to fuck with vulnerable drunks?
  • Old momma's boy... even though he only knew toothless 10-speed riding in the snow Ben for 14 meetings, ... has been to thousands of A.A. meetings... so Momma's Boy has 5 and a half years of meetings under his belt... but has not yet lost the desire to stop drinking, had been called a "chronic relapser"... was told that he didn't work the steps properly... from what appears to be a real step working group! Wow! Surprise.
  • Momma's boy left the meeting, and everything fell into place for him! But he just had to go back and tell old Ben about his new success... of staying sober by staying away from A.A.
  • Old Ben got pissed.
  • Momma's Boy felt the need to take just a little more of toothless, 10-speed driving Ben's advice...
  • Old momma's boy has been sober ever since he left A.A., but he's still thinking about how cold his saved seat must be by now...

Momma's Boy's 3 questions for you;

  1. Is A.A. really working for you?
  2. How well do you really know these people?
  3. Are A.A. meetings really a safe place for me/us to be?

Now... A.A., a dangerous religious cult, posses itself as the "only" answer for your drinking problem.


So, do XAers/antiAAers mean us harm? Of course not! They're good people. They are truthful. They bring up good fair discussions and shed light on some of our problems and weaknesses without embellishment and exaggeration. They're fresh and never ever repeat themselves. They never exploit or take advantage of the plight of incest victims, people with chronic mental illnesses, manic depressives, schizophrenics like my brother who aren't alcoholics and don't go to A.A. meetings anyway, etc.

I'm starting to think that sobriety is like a rubber band. Poor innocent and motivated suffering wet alcoholics are just somehow stuck, get sent to A.A., since it's the only solution and they're forced to A.A. from the sock-puppet American Judicial system, and once they get to A.A., they suffer horid religious indoctrination, 13th stepping, mental anguish and punishment... but when they leave A.A., they go on to live healthy normal, useful, well-balanced, lucrative, sober, coffee-free, tobacco-free, sugar-free, fart-free, 10 speed-free, spit-free lives, and can go back onto their anti-depressant, manic-depressive, paranoid scizophrenic pills! But they don't cheat on their wives and they don't drink fucking coffee or smoke fucking cigarettes or say that Goddamned Lord's Prayer!

Sign me up!


ExposeAA, and his ilk... like to talk about how A.A.ers get off on the suffering of those who don't do the program as described, those who leave A.A., and especially XAers/antiAAers encountered on the web.

I say that's not true and just not even logical. We started off as wet drunks ourselves, remember? Now we're to feel guilty about achieving sobriety with the method presented to us?

  1. A.A. is working well for me. It really is. I put a lot less into it timewise as many do. I do 1 or 2 meetings a week unless I have time and a reason to go to another one. I spend time with other A.A.s for leisure, program, church, spiritual retreats, weddings, funerals, for lunch/dinner, household projects/moving, etc.
  2. How well do I know these people? Some I've known since 1994. That's before some of you little crumb snatchers have been pissing your pants.
  3. Are A.A. meetings a safe place to be? Just what kind of protection do real alcoholics need? Are you vulnerable in meetings because you're young, female, experiencing other problems than alcoholism? IDK. There are usually many different kinds of meetings in a decent sized town. Do you want to go to a meeting in broad daylight at a well-attended meeting in some very public strip-mall somewhere? Somewhere that's not out in the boondocks in some church basement? Find what is comfortable. Bring your APBT and your mace. IDK. Never been an issue for me. I heard a guy in a forum discribe a meeting this way;

"There is one group where I live that is like a bar without the alcohol. They fight, yell, and basically use the room for everything but recovery. Its known as the shoebox. Filled with slippers, loafers, and sneakers. Some are sicker than others, and that becomes very apparent in some groups. "

So what I want to know is this; us pertetrator proAAers are to feel guilty about how we treat our poor abused suffering antiAAer/XAer counterparts... when we just know where they stand? Or where they sit, actually... on their asses on their comfy couches in their air-conditioned homes behind their nice cozy computers.

So much suffering going on here, it just breaks my fucking heart.


So... we've been called out on our accountability by some avid anti/XAer. FTG to be exact. I saw her post in the mentalhelp site. She's ranting about her wonderful article about how AAers are only concerned with their own asses. That makes sense, right? Harm others and God will keep ya sober.

Here's her post and my hopefully allowed response to it. You get the inside scoop here. BTW, I left a response to exposeAA on that disturbing vid today. I have to be honest. It really did rattle me. It had me wondering for a sec... "What if A.A. really is a cult? How blind am I? Should I run from it now and not look back? Are we that harmful? Is there no God? Is there a God, but He hates me and the likes of A.A.?

So I confronted the vid with an open mind and... he's just fucking with us! Look at all the contradictions in that one vid? But... I manned up and asked him to answer me straght out; is it true or is it false? We'll see. If it's true, that meeting/group/individual needs to be dealt with.


please advise - FTG - Jun 6th 2010



I shouldn’t have to pay taxes for schools. My kids are grown.Why should I call the cops? I don’t even know those people.Health Care Reform? I’m healthy and I don’t want to pay for anyone else’s problems!I don’t know why you say such hateful things about Father Bollier. He never touched me.Well, so what if he was getting bullied or whatever? He didn’t have to be there.Of course she got raped. Did you see what she was wearing?You should have seen this woman slapping her kid around in the store today! No, of course I didn’t. It’s none of my business.Climate change? Whatever. I don’t see anything. (Besides, I’ll be dead by the time California floats away.)We really shouldn’t publicize how many children have been killed or have died because of the Iraq war, because it will just erode our morale.I won’t speak to whether or not people get abused in AA. All I know is that it saved my life.Dear AA Members,What profound level of spiritual awakenedness allows you to respond to trenchant criticism of AA – and to the alarming evidence of its lack of accountability and oversight – by saying that the only thing that really matters is that it worked for you?

I’m only asking, because I’ve heard variations on this response so many times. It seems to be the last word

— the AA Trump Card.

I’ve been mulling this over for a couple of days, but just had to ask, finally, after reading this AAs comment on gratitude;

I live a fantastic life today………… If AA & 12steps can be construed as religious or you have a personal dislike of it…..

then I am sorry AA was or is a bad experience for you……….

Regardless of how others percieve AA…… all I know is it saves my ass and many of my dear fellowship friends……

Well, AAs, thanks in advance for your detailed responses,



Now, my response; (Have to put it here because ... I can't respond to ftg due to censorship)

No ftg - McGowdog - June 7th, 2010

No FTG. What you and some of your minions have cooked up to be the "Soup du Jour" in XA and antiAA, the idea was stolen from someone else earlier in the week and regurgitated and pimped by you, as has been your XA/antiAA stomping ground.

We know where your website is. It's like Australia and old mens' underwear. You have gr8 support amongst your minions and you have a gr8 following. But we see what happens to those who are proAA. They are cast out as vicious, cultlike, zealots. At least here, both sides have a voice.

Now, I'd like to direct some of you to... not my website, I'm proAA and I'm nasty. Not a popular combination... but at least I show accountability... but I'd like to direct you to a youtube vid that some of you anti/XAers love;

In this vid, a newcomer claims to take their own mom to a meeting and horrible things happen in this meeting. I say it's a lie and it's beyond embellished. It belittles people who are victims to incest and there are 32 other claims that do nothing but contradict each other. It's a bunch of lies. But some of you get a kick out of it.

A.A. is still one beggar trying to show another where there's bread. Our respect to your alternatives will become apparent just the moment we learn to brush aside the bs.


P.S. I'm sober today and I've not harmed anybody today. Can you say the same?


"all - - Jun 7th 2010
"P.S. I'm sober today and I've not harmed anybody today. Can you say the same?"
that question says it all.

Yes. It does say it all. It says you're a little ankle biter chihuahua dog without the balls to put your username down.

Where's your accountability and whom have you helped today? All the poor people who you've saved from A.A.? Your pitch is stale. Your goose is cooked. The jig is up.

What do you have to offer alcoholics besides A.A.? Pointing fingers at proAAers? Does that keep a drunk from taking the next drink? Honestly?

If you can stay sober on mind control, do it.

If you can stay sober on "Love thy Neighbor", do it.

Let me use your own claims against you; If a method works for a person to get and stay sober, how could it be wrong?

That somebody in A.A. would harm another person on this planet and have that work for them is just plain and absolute bullshit.

Go peddle your wares someplace else anti/XAer scumbags.

The Staying Power of A.A.

Thursday, June 3, 2010

Tiburon88s responder OneOf gets Stinkin' Thinkin's Quote of the Day

Here's some responses to OneOf's response to Tiburon88;

Susan says
wow, that’s an unbelievable ego preaching surrendering ego there. I need a shower and some brain bleach now thanks for that.

tintop says
Susan, I thought the same thing.

violet says wtf????????

AndyM says
To the best of my knowledge there has never been any “lab test” to determine whether someone is suffering from depression and might benefit from antidepressants. And, of course, antidepressants are not painkillers as this person seems to think. But ignorance never stops these zealots trying to countermand informed medical advice.
The combination of the message that the rest of the world wouldn’t miss you if you killed yourself with a condemnation of accepting medical treatment for depression is pretty poisonous.

k says
Behind many alcoholics are life problems and mental illness, AAs answer to this is that you are egotistical in not being happy with your life.
A woman goes home and is being abused physically by her partner, she drinks to numb things.
AAs answer stop being egotistical; and selfish and accept the beatings, live life on life terms throw in the towel and accept defeat go home and get a good beating, then apoligise to him and apologise to everybody else. Don’t let your ego get in the way of wanting a better life otherwise god will throw relapse bolts at you.
Stop using your life as an excuse.
you dont drink because you are schizophrenic, bipolar, suffering PTSD (despite countless studies showing these types of people are more likely to suffer alcoholism). You drink because you are selfish and egotistical.
pray to god you scumbag

k says
maybe i am being wierd but instead of apoligising to everybody wouldn’t part sorting her situation out be to leaving her partner.
An hardcore AAs response. Thats a seperate issue, nothing to do with alcoholism and if you think it is then you are termianlly unique and doomed to alcohol hell. we are all the same, take the cotton wool out of your ears and put them in your mouth and go and apologise to some people. But take cotton wool out first then put it back until you realsie Bill W was a prophet and the Big book is the Bible

k says
Bill W this, bill W that. Did you know Billy boy W used to put his hat on before his underpants.
people with many years more sobriety than Billy W had at the time quote everything he says like hes some kind of saint

k says
There is millions of these brainwashed zealots. with their blind allegence to dr bobby and billy w. If they were born in a an arab country I have know doubt that the most hardcore would be potential suicde bombers

k says
Most apologise to any arabs, not because AA told me to too. lol. I meant if they were born in area where terrorists had power, I know thats not most of the Arab areas

Ben Franklin says
Is Pinkcuda the same Cuda that was banned from here?

humanspirit says
Absolutely despicable. And this nasty piece of supremely egotistical filth thinks he’s “increasing the amount of love in the universe” does he?

This is yet another person whose higher power has clearly decided not to restore to sanity.

speedy0314 says ma,
‘egoism’ and ‘egotism’ are similar but not directly synonymous.
the great & learned whatever-the-f**k-his/her-name is who authored the above acid-reflux-inducing post would do well to keep a dictionary handy when typing out those hectoring pearls of ‘love & service’.
hmmmm … .
on second thought, that dictionary would sit — never opened — collecting dust while the bhodisatva prattles on self-importantly about ’surrendering’.
jeez, has anyone even read freud these days? or calvin? or martin luther?
nope — bill wilson’s convoluted hybrid of the freudian ‘ego’ (as shat out through jung’s great mythology-engorged colon) mixed with a heavy dose of calvin’s inherently sinful self & martin luther’s “divine spark” will do just fine for these imbeciles.
the ‘ego’ is an abstraction, shitbird — a hypothetical construct. do the world a favor & surrender your internet connection.

surrender … but don’t giver yourself away,
Sofa King S.M.A.R.T.

tintop says
soberrecovery is an example of the “blind leading the blind”. There are good well intentioned people there; but, places like soberrecovery show the very worst of “peer led recovery”. “oneof” is an example of that sort of thing.

friendthegirl says
In your present state, you are useless as any part of a solution to your society’s problems. In fact, you add to the problems. So if you were to kill yourself, there would be no loss to the rest of us, wouild there? See the truth of that, Ti. It’s important.

That is a purely, shockingly hateful and abusive lie to tell another human being. I am sure this isn’t the first time he has verbally assaulted a vulnerable person in AA with this demented “truth.” Good god, he’s so adamant that his victim understand and really internalize just how worthless he is to everyone on earth. “It’s important.”

What a sick fuck.

Are there really AA members who are against seeing some oversight and accountability? How much longer will they think it’s such a hoot that the inmates are running the asylum?

tintop says k,
determine what is right, then go ahead. Forget those people, they are not worth it.
June 3, 2010, 5:25 am

JenX says WTF!? I have an account over there under a different name, "Twat Chops", and I occasionally ask questions and get horrible advice and responses from “well meaning 12 steppers”, but none have been as awful as the response above. June 3, 2010, 7:47 am

tintop says JenX, yes, that response was unusally bad.
It is all that they know. soberrecovery is very poor. June 3, 2010, 8:50 am


I Think it's very nice you all are concerned about the recipient of this post, which is now about 6 months old. The thread has not been posted in since about the 25th of November, 2009.

I don't recall this poster, but they didn't seem to get reprimended for suggesting tiburon to go "kill himself". That seems a little odd to me. I didn't engage Tiburon88s posts too much because they were usually in the "Alcoholism" section and they were obvious flame-bating antiAA threads. I did go head to head with Bugsworth in there though. She'd come crawling out from under some rock to engage in her antiAA bashing whenever she got the chance. Huh Bugs? Huh Madeline?

This Tiburon88 character was funny though. This is the same guy who started a thread called, "Drinking mouthwash=How Dangerous? And, let's not forget, "I Hate A.A. = My Reasons. Let's see some Tib-isms, shall we?

  • I believe I'm too sick for AA and had to be "escorted" out after my last meeting. -tiburon

  • I don't think I meant it but I actually said that I wished everyone in this room would relapse.
  • Yes I was sober too.

  • ">People don't take me seriously anymore & to tell the truth either do I.
  • I received 3 broken ribs because I implied I had a weapon when I dialed 911. I accept that because they treated me okay & were just doing their jobs. I was overjoyed at that result because I knew I would receive pain killers.
  • I admit I hate myself but I also have a strong dislike towards you. You probably hurt more newcomers in recovery than help them.
  • Why don't you brag about how long you've been sober? I'm sure that will make you feel better than other folks around here. -tiburon
  • Hey everyone I'm still here and usually drunk as a skunk. I hit a new low. I know, I know the advice will be: see a doctor.
  • On a side note if I just drink mouthwash is that considered a relapse?
  • I got some meds to help me detox and will be doing it soon.
  • "10 years of Alcoholism and still going"
  • I have to pick the right hospital. A few know me and label me as a "drug seeker" and will refuse to see me for any reason. I'm not even kidding about this. -tiburon
  • Why should anyone care about me? I certainly don't give a crap about a single person in this world right now.
  • I know when I was a kid my dream was always to be a alcoholic/drug addict. I also dreamed of become apart of AA. At least I have achieved my goals huh? Thanks everyone for reading.
  • I obviously need more than AA and Sober Recovery offers.
  • Have any of you stayed up for days thinking of ways to get rich with a "plan"? How about wandering the city with a police scanner and badge ready to bust drug dealers?
  • Now give me the "tough AA" responses that I so desperately need and want.
  • I believe it is the doctors job is to make my withdrawal easier. Otherwise, I will just continue to drink.
  • Ativan works best for me although I'm on Klonopin right not.
  • so he keeps me on the Klonopin. It helps some but I think I need an increase in dosage which I will ask next time.
  • That's typical of American heath care though.
  • I need to concentrate on my animosity towards ER doctors and nurses.
  • When a patient asks for a certain drug that's what he/she should get.
  • The consumer is always right. Why should I pay a $1500 hospital bill if I
    didn't even receive the correct services? -tiburon
  • usually request 4mg of Ativan in an IV. I usually get it too because the docs don't want to get me riled up
  • Once in a while though I'll get a doctor/nurse who refuse to give me what I need.
  • I even threaten to sue them.
  • Call me a baby or whatever but I admit I'm very demanding when I need to detox. -tiburon


Originally Posted by suki44883
When you get serious about living sober, let us know.

When you dispense some helpful advice let me know.

Side note by McGowdog: HAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now that was funny! suki is
(((((((((((tiburon))))))))))))))))) mushy mushy kissy. Then after
that little remark, suki's thinking, "I'll cut your little raisins


Now back to Tib...

  • What opportunities? You know my life from reading a message board? The right to destroy your life isn't a luxury but sometimes destiny. -tiburon
  • No AW I will bash the program from now on.



Keep up the good work!!! Your fortitude is absolutely stunning and you're an inspiration to all those that try to achieve sobriety.

You Pinkcuda are a perfect example of why I don't listen to AA folks.

You must enjoy relishing in other peoples misery. I believe u are a very unhappy individual and will put u on ignore. Please do the same with me. -tiburon