Yeah, got that covered.
Bashing A.A.? Not so much, no. Not really. No one to bitch about it with anyway.
But not going to A.A. AND staying sober?
Now that's evidently still kind of rare from what I hear. I guess I'll just continue to be a trend setter.
lol, there is nothing "rare" about coming to AA, availing of the fellowship/program and getting well, and then deciding that one has grown too good for the grunt work of helping others to recover. Sounds harsh, but that is exactly what many do ;) The rare ones are people who stay to shake the hands of newcomers and offer em some time to listen to their problems, planting the seed that they too can recover--and then showing them how.
ReplyDeleteYour announcing of your continued sober state is kinda weird, but I guess it's all about showing the "faceless them" that yer doing just fine without em ;)
I just started the Book with a new gal, and we did the 3rd step together today, so I had just googled "theater of the lie" by Mark and Joe and a primer for her 4th--and yer link came up.
Anyways, take care ;-)
Good to hear from ya again MaryGold!
ReplyDeleteSo glad you're doing so well and saving the earth from all of those wayward unsaved drunks.
I took a few sober drunks into that Book and never really got anyone past the 4th step. I did actually get one guy through step 7, then he disappeared on me for 5 years. He showed up 5 years later, sober for 6, had finished his amends, and his life was on fire. I just told him to keep passing it on.
I didn't see the need to brag to the world about it until just now.
Mark Houston and Joe Hawk used to be Monday Nighters which was a group my GrandSponsor ran, a guy named Frank McKibbon. Google him sometime. But those guys were pigeons of Don Pritts, RIP, a guy I have much respect and admiration for. Danny Swartskof or whatshis face? The Real Recovered Alcoholic claims that he's a Course in Miracles cultist.
Anyway, Mark Houston and Joe Hawk were both circuit speakers and probably both died from cigarettes and spiritual pride.
I am proud of my sobriety and ability to walk my own spiritual path to God without A.A.
I am 53 and several times have stayed sober longer than a year without AA.
ReplyDeleteBut to state the bloody obvious for any real alcoholic, lapsing back into alcohol almost always bought back all the shit, pain, chaos, problems and humiliations and so on.......funny coming back to this blog after some time away at this particular time........I went last night to an AA meeting for the first time in ages. I went there to take my wife to her first AA meeting. Melanie a month ago started seeing this mew female psychologist who said a combination of one on one counselling and AA and or NA probably a better choice or option than coping with life's stresses by regularly washing down an insane variety of pills with large amounts of bourbon or red wine.
Get and stay sober if you can, however you can, I say.
ReplyDeleteBut to say A.A. is the only show in town is an obvious falsehood, right?
I went to a meeting Monday before last, my own Monday night group, in fact. It was the day that I saw my parents move from their home into a nursing home. The thing damn near brought me to tears.
I was not shocked of the particular emotion, but the fact that I could so vividly again feel any emotion, for anybody besides myself.
Well anyway, it was a weird night, and I decided to go. I was missed and well received. But at the same time, reminded how hollow and empty my life was/is because I do not worship as they do.
I was glad to see them in pretty much the exact same state they all were some 13 months ago.
But I am so glad that I walked away from A.A. they way I did.
I'm still connected to God and the Sufficient Substitute to booze, despite the absence.
Thanks for your comments/reply above.
ReplyDeleteI don't want to be pushy or annoying but if you click on "Paul C" that last post about my war hero grandfather and me you will see how I have felt in part and at times about AA going back to 1987.
lol@ going to a meeting a week ago....being an AA member for well over a decade, but now claiming you recovered without AA.
ReplyDeleteTotal lie, but don't let that stop your new narrative. No one will notice your resume, really!
Nice too you made a guest appearance at your old group to judge them all as not quite being at your level of enlightenment, HAHA!
Seriously dude, this is turning into a dark comedy blog ;)
Ps: I knew Mark and Joe, loved them both. They helped literally thousands of people to recover, and frankly, you seem hardly fit to shine their shoes, much less guess how they "probably" died. I know Don's story well, another member who NEVER stopped helping others through AA's recovery program. All of them continue to help others today through their workshops, etc, all which were gifted us for free. A beautiful legacy to leave behind for a bunch of drunks.
My only challenge with Mark was his gettin entangled in the rotten Treatment center industry near the end, but I am sure he believed what he was doing was the right thing. No one is perfect, and I never heard any of these guys claim to be saints. Part of why I love them so much.
May they all RIP.
I wouldn't deny that I recovered from alcoholism not only in A.A., but more specifically in this orthodox group of mine.
ReplyDeleteYou're not qualified to judge me and my empass with that kind of hard core A.A., but whatever lifts your skirt up I guess.
I knew Mark Houston quite well and also spoke with Joe Hawk at a Sunlight of the Spirit convention in Silvercreek Colorado. To be circuit speakers like these guys, you have to have a huge ego number one. I refuse to shine their shoes nor worship them as you do.
My biggest problem with the state of the old group is merely the fact that they've neither changed nor moved from exactly what they were over one year ago. They cannot see this as I do. I'm the impartial observer here. I'm glad that they are at least doing well.
My biggest problem about A.A. is the members' overwhelmingly prevalent drive to whip themselves into this realization that A.A. is the only way to God for them and that they are The Annointed One's Chosen beings.
Keep drinking that kool-aid though. I think it's cute, and it probably keeps you out of trouble.
Oh, and don't forget, don't leave before the miracle and wait for the pop! Cheers!
Those two guys were said to be a couple of pill-poppers in the Denver area. I wonder if this what lead to Mark's "nervous breakdown" that chased him out to Texas wink wink nod nod.
ReplyDeleteLike I said before, I'd heard ole Mark brag just about one too many times how he was such a wonderous runner athlete besides the fact that he hoarfed down the old ciggies and how the doctors inspecting his body were in such shock and awe what a fine teenage-virgin-like specimen he appeared to be.
Meanwhile, ole Joe used to brag about how he "anonymously" wink wink nod nod added money to the collection basket out of his personal pocket to keep his local home group meeting place put because he could smoke his ciggies there.
Very noble of him to admit that btw, but here's the message I have for him... put the cigarette down doofus, or you're gonna croak.
Oops, too little too late.
I'm qualified to dis people for dying of stupid lowly cigarette smoke by the way. My oldest brother Chris died from smoking cigarettes, and he was a paranoid schizophrenic, a person almost if not moreso stubborn than Mark and Joe.
My mom could have died of cigarette smoking and drinking like three of her sisters and her brother, but she refused. She had the docs rip her ribs into two, cut the bad lobe out, healed up and ... get this... here comes the HUGE revelation. .. quit. No chemo, no radiation, no A.A.!
Wow, she ought to do Smokers' Anonymous Tapes. We can move her down to Kerrville yee haw!
This was an interesting read, I'm intrigued by the written history of men and the sometimes ironic results associated with their thought processes. Imho when ever 2 or more are gathered in Logos something is created, usually of spiritual nature. The rest is rhetoric and chaos.
ReplyDeleteDid it ever dawn on you that you are using the other anti-AA's as a higher power? Whatever works, but your best thinking made you alcoholic, so there's that. On the other hand, if you got sober with AA and now shit on it as unneccesary, you're probably gonna drink at some point. Good luck though, however you keep sober
ReplyDelete