Sunday, June 6, 2010

Do XAers mean us no harm?

"One mom at a time"? That was a nice touch. I'm sure it went exactly like that. You had a member named Ben, with few teeth, he was a big book thumper, but he hurled all the slogans at you, drove a 10 speed. You say he had a really nice 10-speed? They make 21 speeds now... since for over 20 years. Are you saying his bike is as old as his teeth? Are you judging Ben's material accomplishments?

If you knew the antics of Ben so well, why did you take your mom there? Did you and your mom come up with the "Motherfuckers Anonymous" blast and discuss these sexual positions together? Did she help you carve out the "One mom at a time" plaque?

That's really sick shit you folks resort to. Let's see how many antiAAer claims you punched with that one vid, shall we?

  • Ben was there with his "disciples"... his few teeth... and his 10 speed bicycle... in the fucking snow...
  • Ben hurls MOTR Treatment Center slogans at you and you pull out that big old Brown Stamp collection...
  • Betty... recovering crack whore with a nasty cough... but you sit right there next to her of course
  • You somehow know she used dirty needles because don't all reformed crack whores brag about this?
  • Oh, and she spits when she talks...
  • And you have to hold hands with her because you are always stuck sitting next to her... during that Lord's Prayer...
  • The Lord's Prayer is a "spiritual prayer", right?
  • Ben determines what's spiritual and what's religious
  • Momma's boy tells us how a Big Book Discussion meeting is just like a good ole Southern Baptist service!
  • Betty knows the difference between God and Gawd! too.
  • Betty told you to shut your mouth and listen... Sure she did! We believe ya!
  • Ben threatened you with death and hurled a "Fake it till you make it blast!" Wow, the Quinella!
  • Ben knows a lot about A.A. and he knows what you should and shouldn't do... a good sponsor has tons of advice.
  • Momma's Boy is gonna go back to church, but not if Ben doesn't approve! After all, he's got that killer 10 Speed and few teeth!
  • Momma's Boy asked Ben for permission to quit smoking... told to go try to quit jerking off instead
  • Ole Betty has good advice too... meetings, meditation, and masterbation... sound advice from a Crack Whore who spits...
  • Got them meds, because isn't every AAer dually diagnosed? Got them meds and need to have old Ben tell me to stop using them... he drives that killer 10 speed and only has 3 teeth... in the snow... he's gotta be my favorite mentor...
  • Tried to kill yourself, Ben told you that you were selfish... and somehow wound up doing a Youtube vid! Wow! God is great, huh?
  • Them alkies in A.A. are sure powerless... and also liars, cheats and thiefs...
  • So there's momma's boy... with his mom... next to the spitting ex-Crack Whore... with Ben shouting slogans to you... and now you've got motherfucker talking about how he'd like to do his mom.
  • Unusual meeting... but you brought mom along...
  • Mom was shocked...
  • Momma's boy was gonna be the hero and steer the meeting back to the proper topic... experiences related to alcohol... but old Ben told you to not take other people's inventories...
  • Then Ben follows that up with a "Your best thinking got you here" blast
  • Old Ben told you to sit down, shut up, and listen... and because you've known him for all of two weeks, you take his advice.
  • Nice opportunity to pimp the "Small Book" and Agent Orange at http://www.orange-papers.org/, because... this guy has a lot of hope for drunks, right?
  • Something clicked, then Momma's Boy realized that A.A. is a religious cult... or a religion when the courts make a judgement on it... but back to a cult when dealing with vulnerable drunks... because who doesn't like to fuck with vulnerable drunks?
  • Old momma's boy... even though he only knew toothless 10-speed riding in the snow Ben for 14 meetings, ... has been to thousands of A.A. meetings... so Momma's Boy has 5 and a half years of meetings under his belt... but has not yet lost the desire to stop drinking, had been called a "chronic relapser"... was told that he didn't work the steps properly... from what appears to be a real step working group! Wow! Surprise.
  • Momma's boy left the meeting, and everything fell into place for him! But he just had to go back and tell old Ben about his new success... of staying sober by staying away from A.A.
  • Old Ben got pissed.
  • Momma's Boy felt the need to take just a little more of toothless, 10-speed driving Ben's advice...
  • Old momma's boy has been sober ever since he left A.A., but he's still thinking about how cold his saved seat must be by now...

Momma's Boy's 3 questions for you;

  1. Is A.A. really working for you?
  2. How well do you really know these people?
  3. Are A.A. meetings really a safe place for me/us to be?

Now... A.A., a dangerous religious cult, posses itself as the "only" answer for your drinking problem.


So, do XAers/antiAAers mean us harm? Of course not! They're good people. They are truthful. They bring up good fair discussions and shed light on some of our problems and weaknesses without embellishment and exaggeration. They're fresh and never ever repeat themselves. They never exploit or take advantage of the plight of incest victims, people with chronic mental illnesses, manic depressives, schizophrenics like my brother who aren't alcoholics and don't go to A.A. meetings anyway, etc.

I'm starting to think that sobriety is like a rubber band. Poor innocent and motivated suffering wet alcoholics are just somehow stuck, get sent to A.A., since it's the only solution and they're forced to A.A. from the sock-puppet American Judicial system, and once they get to A.A., they suffer horid religious indoctrination, 13th stepping, mental anguish and punishment... but when they leave A.A., they go on to live healthy normal, useful, well-balanced, lucrative, sober, coffee-free, tobacco-free, sugar-free, fart-free, 10 speed-free, spit-free lives, and can go back onto their anti-depressant, manic-depressive, paranoid scizophrenic pills! But they don't cheat on their wives and they don't drink fucking coffee or smoke fucking cigarettes or say that Goddamned Lord's Prayer!

Sign me up!


ExposeAA, and his ilk... like to talk about how A.A.ers get off on the suffering of those who don't do the program as described, those who leave A.A., and especially XAers/antiAAers encountered on the web.

I say that's not true and just not even logical. We started off as wet drunks ourselves, remember? Now we're to feel guilty about achieving sobriety with the method presented to us?

  1. A.A. is working well for me. It really is. I put a lot less into it timewise as many do. I do 1 or 2 meetings a week unless I have time and a reason to go to another one. I spend time with other A.A.s for leisure, program, church, spiritual retreats, weddings, funerals, for lunch/dinner, household projects/moving, etc.
  2. How well do I know these people? Some I've known since 1994. That's before some of you little crumb snatchers have been pissing your pants.
  3. Are A.A. meetings a safe place to be? Just what kind of protection do real alcoholics need? Are you vulnerable in meetings because you're young, female, experiencing other problems than alcoholism? IDK. There are usually many different kinds of meetings in a decent sized town. Do you want to go to a meeting in broad daylight at a well-attended meeting in some very public strip-mall somewhere? Somewhere that's not out in the boondocks in some church basement? Find what is comfortable. Bring your APBT and your mace. IDK. Never been an issue for me. I heard a guy in a forum discribe a meeting this way;

"There is one group where I live that is like a bar without the alcohol. They fight, yell, and basically use the room for everything but recovery. Its known as the shoebox. Filled with slippers, loafers, and sneakers. Some are sicker than others, and that becomes very apparent in some groups. "

So what I want to know is this; us pertetrator proAAers are to feel guilty about how we treat our poor abused suffering antiAAer/XAer counterparts... when we just know where they stand? Or where they sit, actually... on their asses on their comfy couches in their air-conditioned homes behind their nice cozy computers.

So much suffering going on here, it just breaks my fucking heart.


So... we've been called out on our accountability by some avid anti/XAer. FTG to be exact. I saw her post in the mentalhelp site. She's ranting about her wonderful article about how AAers are only concerned with their own asses. That makes sense, right? Harm others and God will keep ya sober.

Here's her post and my hopefully allowed response to it. You get the inside scoop here. BTW, I left a response to exposeAA on that disturbing vid today. I have to be honest. It really did rattle me. It had me wondering for a sec... "What if A.A. really is a cult? How blind am I? Should I run from it now and not look back? Are we that harmful? Is there no God? Is there a God, but He hates me and the likes of A.A.?

So I confronted the vid with an open mind and... he's just fucking with us! Look at all the contradictions in that one vid? But... I manned up and asked him to answer me straght out; is it true or is it false? We'll see. If it's true, that meeting/group/individual needs to be dealt with.


please advise - FTG - Jun 6th 2010



I shouldn’t have to pay taxes for schools. My kids are grown.Why should I call the cops? I don’t even know those people.Health Care Reform? I’m healthy and I don’t want to pay for anyone else’s problems!I don’t know why you say such hateful things about Father Bollier. He never touched me.Well, so what if he was getting bullied or whatever? He didn’t have to be there.Of course she got raped. Did you see what she was wearing?You should have seen this woman slapping her kid around in the store today! No, of course I didn’t. It’s none of my business.Climate change? Whatever. I don’t see anything. (Besides, I’ll be dead by the time California floats away.)We really shouldn’t publicize how many children have been killed or have died because of the Iraq war, because it will just erode our morale.I won’t speak to whether or not people get abused in AA. All I know is that it saved my life.Dear AA Members,What profound level of spiritual awakenedness allows you to respond to trenchant criticism of AA – and to the alarming evidence of its lack of accountability and oversight – by saying that the only thing that really matters is that it worked for you?

I’m only asking, because I’ve heard variations on this response so many times. It seems to be the last word

— the AA Trump Card.

I’ve been mulling this over for a couple of days, but just had to ask, finally, after reading this AAs comment on gratitude;

I live a fantastic life today………… If AA & 12steps can be construed as religious or you have a personal dislike of it…..

then I am sorry AA was or is a bad experience for you……….

Regardless of how others percieve AA…… all I know is it saves my ass and many of my dear fellowship friends……

Well, AAs, thanks in advance for your detailed responses,



Now, my response; (Have to put it here because ... I can't respond to ftg due to censorship)

No ftg - McGowdog - June 7th, 2010

No FTG. What you and some of your minions have cooked up to be the "Soup du Jour" in XA and antiAA, the idea was stolen from someone else earlier in the week and regurgitated and pimped by you, as has been your XA/antiAA stomping ground.

We know where your website is. It's like Australia and old mens' underwear. You have gr8 support amongst your minions and you have a gr8 following. But we see what happens to those who are proAA. They are cast out as vicious, cultlike, zealots. At least here, both sides have a voice.

Now, I'd like to direct some of you to... not my website, I'm proAA and I'm nasty. Not a popular combination... but at least I show accountability... but I'd like to direct you to a youtube vid that some of you anti/XAers love;

In this vid, a newcomer claims to take their own mom to a meeting and horrible things happen in this meeting. I say it's a lie and it's beyond embellished. It belittles people who are victims to incest and there are 32 other claims that do nothing but contradict each other. It's a bunch of lies. But some of you get a kick out of it.

A.A. is still one beggar trying to show another where there's bread. Our respect to your alternatives will become apparent just the moment we learn to brush aside the bs.


P.S. I'm sober today and I've not harmed anybody today. Can you say the same?


"all - - Jun 7th 2010
"P.S. I'm sober today and I've not harmed anybody today. Can you say the same?"
that question says it all.

Yes. It does say it all. It says you're a little ankle biter chihuahua dog without the balls to put your username down.

Where's your accountability and whom have you helped today? All the poor people who you've saved from A.A.? Your pitch is stale. Your goose is cooked. The jig is up.

What do you have to offer alcoholics besides A.A.? Pointing fingers at proAAers? Does that keep a drunk from taking the next drink? Honestly?

If you can stay sober on mind control, do it.

If you can stay sober on "Love thy Neighbor", do it.

Let me use your own claims against you; If a method works for a person to get and stay sober, how could it be wrong?

That somebody in A.A. would harm another person on this planet and have that work for them is just plain and absolute bullshit.

Go peddle your wares someplace else anti/XAer scumbags.

The Staying Power of A.A.


  1. I don't know about you but I've been to too many meetings to count. I'm sure you have too.

    I can honestly say that in the countless meetings I've been to I've never seen anything like these people have in the dozen meetings they've been to.
    I think they're making shit up.
    Much like those in AA that have no idea what the book says, they make shit up.
    So therefore if you have no idea what the truth really is, make shit up.
    Regardless of what side of the fence you're on.
    Somebody will probably believe you.
    These perpetual liars over at ST might think they know what's going on, but they don't.
    They just have a bunch of other lemmings believing the shit they make up.
    And to think. They call us weak minded.
    Go figure!

  2. Karl said...
    I don't know about you but I've been to too many meetings to count. I'm sure you have too.

    I can honestly say that in the countless meetings I've been to I've never seen anything like these people have in the dozen meetings they've been to.
    I think they're making shit up.
    Much like those in AA that have no idea what the book says, they make shit up.
    So therefore if you have no idea what the truth really is, make shit up.
    Regardless of what side of the fence you're on.
    Somebody will probably believe you.
    These perpetual liars over at ST might think they know what's going on, but they don't.
    They just have a bunch of other lemmings believing the shit they make up.
    And to think. They call us weak minded.
    Go figure!

    June 7, 2010 5:25 PM

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  3. Doggone it. I can't delete one of my comments without wiping out the whole thing.

    Anywho... Yeah, I know what you mean. I've been to some meetings where I feel like standing up and telling people to shut their fucking mouths. There have been meetings where I make funny faces to certain people when they look at me just to make them laugh and otherwise act like a retard because I'm bored.

    But I've never been forced to sell amway, peddle my ass on the street for money or drugs, never joined a "cult"... you know... the "other cults besides A.A.?... I've never had a sponsor do any more to me besides get in my face and tell me shit about me that I didn't want to hear... like, "Quit fucking around and get that inventory/those amends done", or "This is how you chair a fucking meeting", or "This is how you share in meetings"... stuff like "Get a watch, wear it, and use it... be on fucking time." You know, stuff that helps you, not stuff that harms you.

    And how can A.A. not work, unless you were hustled into A.A. and not even be a real alcoholic?

    What does a little religious endoctrination or a little bit of spiritual discipline do to cause harm to the atheist, anyway? If they don't believe the shit, then what is the Lord's Prayer going to do to harm them? Fucking honestly? Our Father, not the one who left for work on Monday morning and never showed up at home again... but the One who gave us two eyeballs, five toes, two ears, etc... who art in Heaven... a nice place I hear... Hallowed be Thy name. Thy Kingdom come, Thy Will be done... in (not "on" stupifucks... look it up)earth as it is in Heaven... and forgive us our trespasses... AS we forgive those who trespass against us... and then a little discussion about the future and that's it.

    You don't even have to do the prayer... like if you're a heathen or something.

    What the hell are these people so bent out of shape about? Are they just fucking with us? Bored?

  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

  5. Ha! I feel your pain. They are just the kind of folks that would have some real fire and maybe be effective with new drunks.

    Last I saw, you had posted a reasonable post to them, stating you agree with some of their claims, how we are more alike than they may want to admit, then you said, "play nice".

    Did they not play nice?

  6. Rob, they took our blog off their "Resentment List" favs, then ftg told me that I'm banned from there, as is Tony J and Cuda, and they fart in our general direction.

    I've had a hard time playing it straight over there and usually just went in there like a bull in a china closet and I almost fit in... in a sick sort of way. But how else are you going to communicate with some 15 anti/XAers without either getting attacked or snarked to death?

    Although K can't seem to put a sentence together, you had her uttering complet phrases... sort of. She must like you. You must have given her female wood or something. All I ever got out of her was "Sod off".

    Now, when I first met TonyJ, he was over at this ongoing blog over here where there's a lot more civility and a lot more balance. You get to hear what our detractors are saying, but the posts are delayed quite a bit and heavily moderated by the host, Dr. D. Check it out if you get a chance. It's at http://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=9527&cn=14 .

  7. "K" says "To add to MAs point, alcoholics often have underlying issues schizophrenia, bipolar, PTSD, sexual abuse problems. Telling them they are spiritual sick and God has deserted is sickest thing of alltime".

    More drunken posting from outer space.
    "K" is now a Psychiatrist with a .125 BAC
    Imagine that.

    I would also like to see where AA claims that God deserted anyone.
    It's more like we deserted God.
    But who cares what the book says?
    Making shit up is a lot more gratifying.

  8. OK... I'm doing this in honor of MA, ftg, and Speedy ok...

    Here goes...

    I didn't go to a meeting today and I didn't pray so that God could spend more time helping those get that fuckup in the Gulf fixed.

    But if it's not done by Thursday morning, that's it. I'm going back to my meeting and I'm taking God back with me.

  9. This comment has been removed by the author.

  10. I hadn't heard from Tony in a while, but have seen him posting on another blog.

    Hope all is well with Jim and his family. Prayers to them.

  11. That's one hell of a story.

    I think that guy with his mom was that kid Mike over at mentalhealth.net.

    He doesn't like it when we curse.

    Fuck him.

  12. Whatever happened to your buddy Marcus? Can you bring him by here and see if he wants authorship?

    If you guys want to fire away, feel free. I know y'all are probably busy with family, jobs, etc. I'm getting kind of busy too.

    Work is picking up a little bit, but I'm in line for a nice city job too. Scored a 97% on the test and this puts me in line for not the first opening, but the second one.

    Wish me luck.

  13. This comment has been removed by the author.

  14. Blah, blah, blah. What a pompous ass you are Rob B over at SR and wherever you go!

  15. In fact, Rob B, that probably isn't even your pic. No doubt you are some 400 lb guy (not that I discriminate but I do hate posers). You are so full of yourself and why not just stay over at SR and pretend like you know what the F you are talking about instead of wandering all over the Net and proving yourself to be a moron? I mean, over there someone might, like, look up in *awe* to your dumb ass?

  16. You are right Kathryn, I've got some growing up to do. I did my best to make amends over there.

    I apologize to all who had the displeasure of reading my recent toxic rants here, it's not the man I want to be.

    I am done with internet recovery and blogging. Take care, for the guys on this site, you have my e-mail, I will check that from time to time, but it is time for me to unplug from cyber space and get busy living in the real world. Peace.

  17. Sorry FTG, I had to respond here since you don't have the guts to let me respond there.

    "Spiritually awakened AAs smugly gloating over someone’s struggle to get off the sauce? Why, I’m shocked! Completely ignoring AA’s own embarrassing, dismal statistics? Never"!

    You have a warped perspective
    Nobody is gloating over anyones struggle.
    Just pointing out the stupidy of someone among your ranks bashing something that actually does work for other people without having one of their own.
    Maybe you should add "Armchair Quarterbacking" to the list of infractions that send someone to the Dunce Room.

    I'm certain you'll write your own book some day.
    I'm expecting 163 pages with lies and misinformation about AA with "Just Quit" somewhere in the middle.
    Seems "Just Quit" isn't working for "K"
    Maybe someday you can also have a 96% failure rate just like we do.
    Maybe when you unwarp your perspective you'll see that we can't have 2 million members and also have a 96% failure rate

  18. "On the occasions where they venture outside of the AA boundaries, where normal rules of discourse apply; and techniques like passive aggressiveness, ad hominem attacks and shut down slogans don’t work – they are at a loss, and respond like an angry child on a playground. They cannot understand that the dogma and manipulation tactics that they thrive on in AA, do not work for those of us not under the spell".

    MA, you fool!! Your entire site is comprised of manipulation, Ad homineim attacks, lies, half truths and fear.
    When confronted, ignore the fact staring you right in the face.

    Question one was asked.

    Why hasn't something that works better dwarfed AA. After all, they've had 75 years to do it.

    Your Answer: Ignore

    Question two was asked.

    Where is your concern for the Second amendment right??
    After all, your right to own a gun is a guaranteed "right" isn't it??
    A Constitutional Right has been reduced to a "Privelege"

    Same with Amendment 4
    Why can a PO come to your workplace or home and "Inspect" you at any time?

    Seems your 4th amendment right is now a "Privelege"

    Your answer: Ignore

    I can tell you that you have no concern whatsoever for our Constitunal Rights.
    It's just another mole that pops up when we slam the last one.

    Here's another one.
    "It’s like reasoning with a person who has schizophrenia, and trying to convince them the voices they hear in their head is not real. It’s a pointless exercise in futility".

    So says the schitzo guy that devotes so much of his time to something that really doesn't concern him in the first place.
    You probably sleep with a night light to keep the imaginary AA bogeyman from 13th stepping you.

    So why not tell the real truth in your quest for justice instead of fabrications??

    Your answer: Ban them from ST
    Second Answer: Delete the link in the resentment list so nobody knows about this place. You may lose your following if you do.

  19. And another thing MA
    How can you take the 2% of the idiots that go to club meetings and broad brush the entire program?
    In my opening response to this post I stated I've never seen anything near the likes of what's mentioned by you and your Disciples.
    I outright accused you and your loyal followers of making shit up in order to add fuel to your accusations that All AA is evil.
    Well, you're full of shit!
    You're Lemmings are full of shit too!
    The best way to prove to yourself and cronies that you're not is to totally ignore what's being said over here.
    Good strategy.
    Unless you're willing to answer my simple questions.

  20. Sorry that you of all people got attacked on this blog Rob. On SR, here and elsewhere, we don't see enough of you. You'd been on SR for years... at least 3, maybe 4 years and in all that time, you left with about 746 posts... just off the top of my head. That's an average of about 0.5 posts per day? You are anything but a pompus ass and all you do is tell the truth and don't sell out. But you are proAA and pro God, so... you will be judged harshly by people who either hate God or people who are offended by the hard work you speak of.

    Now... I hear some chatter about us over at ST. I've been away from my computer this weekend, but I see we have a thread highlighting our blog over there... and some comments about how our blog is to vent about their blog and how we don't care about their blog.

    Bottom line is, we have the freedom to do what we want over here. We cannot post over there. They have the first, middle and last word over there.

    I don't even need to read that post over there. It'll go something like this; Rob, McGowdog, Karl, TonyJ, etc. are a bunch of proAA whackos and they are bad and we are smart and good.

  21. "Ben Franklin says

    I hesitated to post this but after posters here were commenting about how reasonable Rob was I felt I needed to set the record straight. I didn’t want Rob, Mcgow and the racist Tony J to to get boners and do a circle jerk over all the attention they were getting. They will probably get blisters on their hands now."

    Come on now, Ben Franklin. You ARE the pivot man in the circle jerk.

    You don't like David R. Hawkins, huh? That's because you are against the spiritual approach. Once you get past the kinesiology and calibrations and stuff, he's got some interesting viewpoints.

    You can trash my mentor David all over the internet if you wish. I cannot do anything but come to my own conclusions about the guy. But in the mean time, I'm enjoying his works. He puts things in a way that makes sense to me. The religions of the world and their actions make no sense to me. Hawkins does a good job of describing why the world is the way it is and why religions of the world have done what they've done... what they've done wrong and right.

    Like he says, there's two types of atheists; those who hate God and the idea of life ending with a trapdoor to hell and those who don't hate God, but just don't think there needs to be a God to explain the universe... the Infinite.

  22. Good luck on you job Dawg.

    I posted well...I thought I did.


    Who the hell is Kathryn ?

    I should introduce her to Mike.

    They can both be on the rag together.

  23. I don't know who Kathryn is, but I think AAHater is Bugsworth, aka Madeline.

    Kathryn sounds like she drinks Manhattans and smokes Lucky Strikes.

  24. Thanks Tony.

    I see they've been dragging Rob through the coals for cleaning off his side of the street and... going out of their way to correct his spelling;


    to [sic]

    Yup! That's right MA. Rob should have spelled it "too"... as in "also". We get it. Very good job. You get the gold star for the day.

    They've been trashing me about David R. Hawkins too. At least one person appreciates my Hawkins rants. Someone... well actually a couple of people on another forum who know that logic and reason are but tools, not ultimate reality.

  25. I intentionally toss in a misspelled or incorrect word as a special tidbit for those folks to jump on.
    It gives them a sense of acomplishment in a world where ther really aren't acomplishing anything else.

    Here's my last example. It's been a while so it's probably time for another one.
    I got this one from Jethro Bodine himself.

    "Now, I am assuming that by the word “cipher”, Cuda actually meant “decipher”. I mean, that would really be stupid to cipher it. Right? Sure. Of course, it doesn’t really require deciphering",

    Like said. If nothing else at least he got one thing in his response.

    Don't feel bad MA! Speedy falls for it too.

    Here's where he went wrong. Too bad he hides over there where we can't engage.

    "I can understand what Cuda is trying to say in the fact that AA is offered as an alternative to jail.

    The problem arises when they are not given a choice, which happens in many places".

    Wrong again. It often starts with "As a condition of your probation" or Jail time is suspended....

    Always. I defy you to show me an instance where it isn't.
    Of course I'll add this to the list of things you choose to ignore.

    I've been waiting for this one just the same as everything else.

    **I will have part II of this three part series, titled “I’d just as well shoot myself than to have you strip search me: A Lesson in the Second and Fourth Amendments”, in the next few days".

    Of course you can always hide under the covers instead.
    Maybe it'll go away.

  26. Hey Karl,

    The old 'AA is a religion' dodge.


    If some of these psuedo intellectuals went to a religious institution they'd understand.

    You can only learn so much from your mommy's basement.

    Hey Mike. Fuck you.

  27. You know. Strangley enough they always refer to the "Religion" aspect but as soon as you whack that mole they bring up activity in club meetings where God is almost never discussed.
    If He is people get up and walk out.
    In my experience Club Meetings draw the bulk of the Court Orders. Therefore they aren't really exposed to the religious aspect.
    Then you tell them that every one of those Court Orders goes to AA as part of an "Agreement"
    Maybe they should stay in Jail.
    That would shut The Three Musketees of Misinformation right the hell up.
    Nah. Probably not!

  28. Click on the link "The Staying Power of A.A. to mix it up with some of the Stinkin' Thinkin'/xposeAA folks.