Saturday, October 24, 2009

A "non alcoholic" in A.A.'s experience is almost like mine!

Here is what an A.A. imposter says about A.A.;

After 13 years in AA I am no longer identifying as an alcoholic or going to as many meetings. The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop drinking. I am going to one meeting a week and telling people that ask what I did not what I think.

I bought the programming when I was new and stayed sober in cult like fashion taking no responsibility for myself.

Today I stay sober knowing that…

I am not an alcoholic.

I am not powerless over alcohol.

I am not bodily and mentally different from my fellows.

I have done stupid things but am not insane.

I do not have to completely give myself to this simple program.

AA is a recovery venue where it is completely inappropriate to date.*

AA is sexually charged and it is inappropriate for men to sponsor women.*

Platitudes, euphemisms, jargon, rhymes, sayings, slogans, rhetoric, absolutes, old timer gurus, and group think, are all things of cults.

Sponsorship is dangerous. I do not know a single sponsor who has not taken on the role of life coach.*

I have learned much about human nature by going to meetings. Human instinct, breeding, networking, opportunism, control, etc. In Alanon I acquired tools that can be used as weapons or defense against would be steppers.*

As with all things, I now use AA in moderation. I do not drink because I appreciate my health today and do not want to trade a couple hours of intoxication for any clouded judgment or illness.

This is my 12th step.

First of all, if you're not identifying as an alcoholic, why waste the buck? Why go to A.A. at all? Are you such a misfit loser that you can't hang out at the gym or the mall? Well... whatever.

Next, you say something about "only requirement". That's wrong to begin with. You're looking at the short form wall scroll. Here's the 3rd Tradition;

"Our membership ought to include all who suffer from alcoholism. Hence we may refuse none who wish to recover. Nor ought A.A. membership ever depend upon money or conformity. Any two or three alcoholics gathered together for sobriety may call themselves an A.A. group, provided that, as a group, they have no other affiliation."

That's your 3rd Tradtion. A requirement to stop drinking is evidently the Swiss Cheese requirement; too many holes.

Going to one meeting a week and telling people what I did and not what I think sounds fantastic. I totally agree with this and this is what I do too.

You bought the programming when you were new and stayed sober in cult-like fashion? Wow! My experience too. But something funny happened to me. I heard a guy speak at our MOTR meeting one night and he sounded different than the rest... like he really knew what he was talking about, what a real alcoholic drinks like, and what the real Program of Alcoholics Anonymous is really about. He was the first one to ask me what I drank like. He made me really look at how I really drank booze.

See... you might not even be an alcoholic and only think you are. You might be a hard drinker who can... control the amount once you start... or stay stopped on your own power when you really want/need to. There are many like this in A.A. now. No one ever really "qualified them" like Bob and Bill did way back when.

Some people are just lonely and have nothing better to do than to come to A.A. and let them hustle you in. Who would do this? Other real alcoholics? Heck no! The other people who have also been hustled in... like from treatment centers. You know? The whole "a drug is a drug is a drug" thing?

If you really don't need A.A. to get and stay sober, please stay away... please. You're killing people. You're embarking on a spiritual program that demands rigorous honesty based on a fundamental lie... you're not alcoholic. If you're not alcoholic, please go somewhere else; Good Will, the Salvation Army, Stinkin' Thinkin', work with lepers. Do something. Deliver the newspaper.

As far as taking responsibility for yourself, you should have done that 13 years ago. I took responsibility for myself and found a group of alcoholics who did nothing but fundamental and orthodox A.A. out of the book. They don't study or pontificate the book. We just do what it says and discuss our experience in it and are sober as a result. It's really that simple. Yet, you belong to a blog that dedicates it's waking hours to bash a free but spiritual program? Ummm... That is special! You... are special!

You are not alcoholic... you probably have no clue what a real alcoholic looks like. You probably couldn't tell the difference between a hard continuous drinker or a real alcoholic.

You are not powerless over alcohol... neither am I. I took the A.A. treatment and it worked. Alcohol is not my problem today. If I lie to you, it's because I'm a liar, not because I'm powerless or sick, or because I had too much to drink.


You are not bodily and mentally different from your fellows? Probably not. You are probably bodily and mentally different from real alcoholics though. So why continue to bother with them? Are you an unrecovered alanon?

Oh! Alanon Joke Alert: Hear about the new alanon doll? You throw it against the wall and it says, "I still love you."*

Sorry, that was bad. I will follow that up with another Alanon Joke; How many alanons does it take to screw in a lightbulb? None. They just detach and let it screw itself. =)

I have done stupid things but am not insane? Me neither. But when I have reached for a bottle of bourbon knowing what it once did to me and do it as if there is nothing wrong with this picture is pure and complete insanity. If you don't believe that, you don't know what an alcoholic is. You should read Melody Beattie. You're in the wrong fellowship.

I do not have to give myself to this simple program? No you don't. Sorry to be rude, but get lost, ok?

A.A. is a recovery venue where it is completely innapropriate to date? That's probably true and good advice, but do me a favor. Save your breath. You tell some sick woman to not spread her legs for any reason and that's the first thing she will do to spite your ass. She's probably bouncing up and down on your boyfriend, your husband, your brother, your dad, your son, and looking at your dog. Who are you to tell people who to date? God?*

A.A.... men should not sponsor women? True that. If I sponsored a woman, my wife would get jealous. That wouldn't work for me. I'm way too good looking anyway. And um... get this; I don't believe in sponsorship. I did a set of steps and have been sponsor free ever since. It's your responsibility to get a sponsor if you must and to choose who will sponsor you. If you do get a sponsor, all they should do is sit you down and talk about their own drinking and listen to you talk about your own drinking and see if you identify with a real alcoholic and whether you fit in or not. If you're not a real alcoholic, leave. If you are, do the 12 steps and then go try to help the new drunk. THAT'S IT! NO TIME FOR FUCKING, SPREADING YOUR LEGS OR BEING A VICTIM! Wow! You make a big deal out of this. If women spread their legs, they need to take responsibility for their own actions and quit bitching to the world about how they're a victim! Why? Because if they don't get screwed in A.A., they'll get screwed a block or two away! Good luck with that.*

Slogans and all that other garbage are a cult? Agreed. Either that or laziness. This is what I call MOTR (Middle of the Road) and it's not A.A. It's B.B. or treatment center garbage. Don't blame A.A. for this. Blame your own closed mindes for this garbage.

Sponsorship is dangerous... life coach? Yeah. I agree. Do a set of steps and become sponsor free. I belong to a group that doesn't believe in it. But we will gladly sit a person down and help them find out if they belong in A.A. or not, if they want to quit drinking for good and all, and if they are willing to do some work out of the book A.A. If not, we send them away.*

You learned about human nature and alanonism? Then you learned this; "He took a drink and I felt better." If your parents or siblings are alcoholic, get growed up and run away. If your spouse is alcoholic, dump them and get a normie. If you attract alcoholics to yourself and find yourself always a victim, that's your problem. You can get help for that in alanon. But even still, you think the A.A. program is full of sick people who don't do steps? What makes you think Alanot is any better?*

This is your 12 Step? You're terminally unique, just like everybody else. You're not an alcoholic. Please stop going to A.A. and 12-Stepping.

* Disclaimer; I am merely a recovered alcoholic here. I have never been abused sexually and rarely any other way and am not an expert against such abuse nor am I insensitive to it. It's merely not my experience. If you need counseling or help for this, get professional help. The only thing I would ever bring to A.A. is to find someone who had my tragic experience and who has gotten free from it themselves. And again, A.A. is not the end-all be-all of life. It's for drunks.

Here's what A.A. says about sex on pages 68, 69, and 70;

Now about sex... Then we have the voices who cry for sex and more sex; who bewail the institution of marriage; who think that most of the troubles of the race are traceable to sex causes... We want to stay out of this controversy. We do not want to be the arbiter of anyone's sex conduct. We all have sex problems. We'd hardly be human if we didn't. What can we do about them?


We review our own sex conduct over the years past. Where had we been selfish, dishonest, or inconsiderate? Whom had we hurt? Did we unjustifiably arouse jealousy, suspicion or bitterness? Where were we at fault, what should we have done instead? We got this all down on paper and looked at it.

In this way we tried to shape a sane and sound ideal for our future sex life. We subjected each relation to this test-was it selfish or not? We asked God to mold our ideals and help us to live up to them. We remembered always that our sex powers were God-given and therefore good, neither to be used lightly or selfishly nor to be despised and loathed.

God alone can judge our sex situation. Counsel with other persons is often desireable, but we let God be the final judge We realize that some people are as fanatical about sex as others are loose. We avoid hysterical thinking or advice...


That's what the book says about sex and I'm proud to be a part of this Program. There's nothing in A.A. that would lead anybody to harm.

Blaming A.A. for any kind of harm is like Oprah blaming her fork for her weight. It's like trying to make a dollar out of 15 cents.

Thursday, October 8, 2009

Pot Smoker bashing A.A.

Mar 16, 2009 -- 6:31PM, Wmdkitty wrote:

There's nothing TO "understand" about "alcoholics" -- you're not "sick" or "diseased", you simply CHOOSE to drink to excess.

Oct 8, 2009 -- 2:48AM, Mcgowdog wrote:

We aren't sick or diseased. I agree.
But... "Most alcoholics... for reasons yet obscure... have lost the power of choice in drink."

That's me. You must be one of the "few", huh kitty cat?

You're not even an alcoholic, are you?

If you are, you're what we real alcoholics call a "baby robin type alcoholic"... all mouth and no brains.

Mar 16, 2009 -- 7:42PM, cherubino wrote:

Good point, and assuming it's true, it follows logically that those who say "AA or the highway" are mistaken and quite possibly deluded. But even as such, they're still just private citizens who have opinions, like political party members and sports fans. They have no more civil or legal authority to enforce their views on the general public than does any other nut who holds forth from a soapbox.

AA is a private, civilian, voluntary organization doing busness in a free society under the protection of the First Amendment. It's not allied with any city, state, or federal law enforcement agency, nor with any correctional bureaucracy. Why not simply ignore them and walk away, just as you would from any other street corner crackpot or assembly thereof?

Very nicely put. Some of you folks in here are pretty smart and pretty mature. It's too bad I came late. Doesn't look like much action in here anymore.

Mar 16, 2009 -- 8:34PM, Wmdkitty wrote:

And yet judges FORCE people into the program, and the program itself actively discourages members from associating with ANYONE who isn't in the program, discourages free thought (as evidenced by the 12-Step zombies who are constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves and others, and continue to prance about like AA is the BEST. THING. EVAR.) and it DAMAGES THE PARTICIPANTS by utterly destroying their minds, their self-esteem, and sense of self-worth. "You're an ADDICT. You're HOPELESS. You're nothing but a FAILURE. You NEED us, we're the ONLY ONES who understand, and we LOVE you!" It's the same thing abusers do to their victims.

Waa! I almost forget we're talking about the poor poor victim alcoholic here. Why is the alcoholic in front of a judge? Because they chugged too many beers without swallowing? Because they dropped the beer bong? Or did they break the LAW? Judges don't force alcoholics to do anything. They give them an alternative; Bubba or A.A. meeting.

But once they get to A.A., the poor victim alky gets snuggies and swirlys? They're forced to pay a buck and buy a 7 dollar book and drink bad coffee.

Oh, the poor victims! A.A. is so rough!

Sep 8, 2009 -- 2:31PM, Wmdkitty wrote:

AA practices indoctrination, you are told that it is the only way, that "if you have one drink, you will die", and other such lies.

When, in truth, one drink won't kill you -- your lack of self-control, should you CHOOSE to have more than one, on the other hand, will.

When there are other recovery programs with better success rates, and no "spiritual program".
AA is a RELIGIOUSLY MOTIVATED program, a friggin' cult, and has a success rate of 5%, same as it is for people who quit on their own. In fact, I'd wager that people who quit on their own are better off, because they are not told to cut any (and all) ties to their "former" life, and have a real support system of family and friends to lean on.

What really burns me, though, is the blatant disregard for the First Amendment, shown when judges sentence a criminal to AA meetings -- the judge is saying, "attend this religious program, or go to jail." It's actually ILLEGAL to do that.


A.A. practices no such doctrine. A.A. does not nor did it ever supply the desire to stop drinking to the prospect.

You can go drink if you want to. If you're not an alky or are one and don't want to stop drinking, don't go to A.A. and don't break the law.

It's just that simple. Why would you go to A.A. to drink booze? That's sort of like going to an abortion clinic to set up a lemans class, isn't it? That's just perverted.

Religious program, 5%, cult? Go back to Stinkin' Thinkin', you baby robin... all mouth and no brain 3 beer drinker.

Wednesday, October 7, 2009

What do people do in A.A.?

If I go to a meeting and drink some coffee, share how things went that day or what I'm going through, help put chairs away and then go home, have I participated in the program of A.A.? People don't actually recover on the inside by doing these things do they?

What does it mean to get out of the self with regard to the program?

Take on a sponsee?

Talk to a sponsor?

I know there comes a point where issues have to be hashed out, and to do this one has to be serious about their own recovery, no one will do this for you. Is this what is meant when people say "it's all in the steps."

If self is the primary issue for recovery, what does one actually do to be unselfish? Is one perpetually thinking of others, or is this another one of those epiphanies that sneaks up from out of nowhere, where the ultimate goal is to achieve a state of mind that nutures healthy ego without reverting back to alcohol?

Can anyone actually provide any concrete examples of the day in the life of A.A. in action?

What do people do in A.A.?

This is a nice quote here. It's a real question that would make a nice topic.

I belong to a group that does steps yearly. We have a meeting that meets once per week. That's it. We meet for lunch on Friday when we can. Since we do steps yearly, we really don't have or need sponsors.

Once you've been through a set of steps, you should be sponsor-free. Why be a burden to some poor guy the rest of his life? Where should your reliance be anyway? In your sponsor? Or in God? Who's responsible for your sobriety? You're sponsor? Or you? I don't understand why some people like to be under somebody elses thumb.

Also, if you come to our group, you'd need to be an alcoholic who wants to quit for good and all. Nobody else. Just alkies. We also don't believe in dual problems. I've got a dual problem. I've got big kahunas. And they hurt a lot. But we don't talk about my big kahunas. If you have dual problems, then once the heat gets to hot on one problem, they just jump to the other problem. Either you're alky or you're not. Get in or get out.

So we have a chair picker. They pick the chair person for that next week's meeting. The chair person comes with a topic, reads a bit out of the book, shares his/her recent experience with the step, then calls on others to share... their current experience with the step/topic. We have a 3 minute meditation before we open the topic to the group. When we're done with discussion, we have 30 minutes of crossfire. There, anybody can ask anybody a question about their experience on the topic. We conclude the meeting with the Lord's Prayer.

That's all we do. We write 3 column inventories, 5th step it with another drunk, do 6, 7, and 8 and make all our amends, then do 10, 11, and 12. We start on Sept 1st and and are finished with our amends by Thanksgiving. that gives us the other 9 months of the year to do 10, 11, and 12.

We don't give a darn about A.A. at the regional, national, or world level. Y'all can drink. We ain't drinkin' no matter what. I got my book and if I see a new drunk I'll pitch him/her if I can.

Do you have a problem with booze?
Do you want to quit for good and all?

If the answers are "Yes" and "Yes", and the attitude is contrite and sincere, we'll work with you. Otherwise, we'll send you to one of those more merciful groups.

How does that saying go? Let us love you till you kill yourself? A.A. is not sentimental. Why? Because of booze.

If you don't care about your sobriety, we can't care. It's a spiritual law. If you do care, we have to care.

A.A. works. It works everytime. A.A. is a set of swingset instructions. You attach A to B and B to C etc. You get a swingset. A.A. is to be experienced. Not debated, studied, guided, etc.