Blackouts and being "struck drunk"

Danny, one of our fellow "recovered" alcoholics in the trenches, posted this in a study session I'm subscribed to.  It brings up a very interesting couple of points with regards to qualifying.



Note: Have you had similar experiences; blackouts? Non-alcoholics and alcoholics BOTH experience this amnesiatic effect when too much alcohol is ingested.



Many non-alcoholics, who have no problems with alcohol, can recall blacking out when they had abused alcohol in the past. ("Don't remember a thing".)


That is because eventually everyone "blacks out" when over imbibing. Even non-alcoholics. It's a human physical fact.


Backouts are NOT symptomatic of alcoholism even though it is symptomatic of an alcohol abuse event. Some non-alcoholics blackout every time they drink! Drinking "too much" is not a qualification either. Sometimes we hear an alcoholic attempting to qualify as "One of us" with a history of "Blackouts". This means nothing to a real alcoholic because everyone blacks out when they drink too much – not just alcoholics. It is just incidental to this particular story, just as incidental as the whiskey/milk concoction in Jim's the salesman's story before it.


 
So, I've been wondering where my blackout experiences fit in here.
 
I think Danny just may have found my loophole for me.  I didn't black out each and every time I drank, but I damn well blacked out most of my drunks and about every third drunk throughout my life, I damn well could have been diagnosed with "accute alcohol poisoning syndrome" or some such thing.  But I don't really remember recall being "struck drunk".
 
No, I was that guy who started drinking again with the "vaguely sensed" that this might not be too smart, but here goes anyway.
 
So, maybe I'm not a real alcoholic after all.
 
And after all these years.
 
Wouldn't this be embarassing?  The waste of time and the ranting.


I'd like to learn more about the drinker who blacks out everytime they drink, but they aren't alcoholic.  How does this work for them?  They have the physical craving but not the mental obsession?  How do you know that they do infact not have the obsession?  I'd like to see some links to case histories on that one... maybe find more about this black-outer the next day.  If they don't have the mental obsession, then surely they can make their mind up to not drink any or it would result in the blackout.  How do they behave during the blackout and through the drunk... through the night?  Do they continue to drink while in the blackout?  I have experience with this.  I've been told I was cut off at the bar, but not kicked out yet.  So my friends tell me I just make friends two tables over and drink these new stangers' drinks for them.  I srsly don't know how or why I did that, but I did... as witnessed by two of my last co-workers.


Now, so since the dangerous amounts I drank doesn't qualify me, how do we explain the stipulation of physical craving in my case? Does my experience demonstrate that, or not?


I know that something doesn't pan out for me when I drink booze.  I guess the "my off button is broken" is no longer a valid qualifier and I should quit using that?


I've heard some of your stories and have tried to remember what makes you a real alcoholic.  Was it because you drank every day no matter what?  I was not a daily drinker.  Was it because you were a New York stockbroker like Bill W. and Danny S?  I was not.  Did you screw your secretary?  I did not. 


I'm getting confused here.  If I'm not a real alcoholic, then that means I don't need A.A., right?  That's ok.  I'm not too keen on it these days anyway.  I'm kind of burned on the steps too... but I'm willing finish up what I started.  I don't sponsor people, so no worries there. 


I still have the right to stay sober and seek spirituality, so I guess I see no need to shy away from the blog. 


We'll just not see eye-to eye on certain key issues so... no big change there either.  The biggest thing is that I would have to stop going to closed A.A. meetings for sure because I'll have to say, "My name is Patrick, and I just found out that I'm not really a real full-blown alcoholic, but I want to continue with my sobriety and seek God", akward.  I don't think that would go over in our MOTR open A.A. meetings either.  Maybe I need to shorten it up.  My name is Patrick and I'm just here to listen.  My name is Patrick and I'm a supporter.  No.  My name is Patrick and I'm in recovery.  My name is Patrick and I'm...  Any ideas?

Oh, and I just want to say one last time before I go... Foo Y'all!

A "REAL ALCOHOLIC"

Let's cut to the chase here. We know one when we see one.

________________________________________

Debra Oberlin, former 3 year president for M.A.D.D. blew a 0.234.

D.A.M.M.!  The irony.  Her comment to the cops?  She claimed she only had four beers.  Perfect!  She's a fucking liar too. 

Drunks Against Mad Mothers!  I bought my bro a shirt that said this. 

Drunk Driving is fucking bad.  Just don't do it.  If you can't pull that off, check yourself into jail.  If you have to, sell all your shit and get yourself a cheap apartment across the street from a liquor store.

Fuck M.A.D.D.

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(second portion posted by McGowdog)

When secular folks ask A.A. questions, like "What is a real alcoholic?"

Here are some of the responses to a very simple question, "What is a "real" alcoholic?"

The setup is usually the same; the poster describes their past with drugs... and then some sort of description of their drinking, which pretty much fits the descpription of some potential hard drinking. 

Now here are the responses this will bring in your average recovery forum;

1. Labels are nasty things and when I take all those out of the equation, I feel fine.  Besides that, alcohol is poison and I choose not to take poison anymore.  Be like me.
2. Most of the folks who I know that abused drugs also abused alcohol.  It's all the same thing.  And the solution is the same so... order up a cup of Recovery Soup.
3. What #2 said!  Oh, I agree!  Let's all get along and sing Kumbaya.
4. Definately agree with #2.  Hugs and kissy icons.
5. Do what's good to yourself.
6. Find your truth, but it's wrong for an addict to drink booze and an alcoholic to do drugs.
7. Terminology is bad.  If you think drinking is a problem... then it is and you should just quit.
8. I'm self diagnosed with "Addictive Prone Personality".  Get rid of the bad and keep the good.  In other words, manage well.
9. Semantics and labels suck.  If you think you have a problem with booze, you must.  Normal drinkers don't worry about their drinking.  So by that logic, "real" alcoholics must.
10. The word "real" alcoholic is mentioned on page 21 of the A.A. book and pages 20-24 describe the difference between the hard drinker and the "real" alcoholic.  You ought to read that and find your truth in that.  Can you control the amount you drink when you start and can you stay away from the first one when you really need/want to?  If not, you might be a real alcoholic.  If not, you might not be a real alcoholic... but still have a problem, but can quit by some other method than the spiritual solution.
11. It's getting hot in here.  Shouldn't this topic be in the 12 Step subforum anyway?

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My take; find your own truth.  Either you're real alky or you're not.  Either you're a real drug addict, or you're not.  You may be a combination of things... hard drinker but potential alcoholic... hard drug user or real addict.  You could even be a real alcoholic and a real addict.

I hear that not all real alcoholics black out.  IDK.  I did black out, so I don't know what it's like to not black out.  I suppose that if I didn't black out, I'd continue to drink and would be more of an around the clock maintenance drinker.  But I didn't so I don't know.

I don't know what it's like to be a drug addict.  I did enjoy my drugs though.

I like what Rob B says about "drug of choice".  Cocaine was his drug of choice and alcohol was his drug of no choice.  I had the same experience.  Now... when I got all drugged up on cocaine, acid, shrooms, crank, etc., I got really trashed and had a hard time going home and sleeping it off... suffering the come-down and working it off.  With booze, I'd binge and go until I got stopped.

So... find your own truth and go from there.  Unless you're a real alcoholic, please do not go to A.A.  You might find some other method to deal with your booze.  It's hard enough finding "real" A.A. in an A.A. meeting anyway.  Now... you may find that you're a real addict and God help you if you are... because you might even have a harder time finding drug recovery in the rooms of N.A. 

The bottom line is, do you need a spiritual solution or not?  If not, great.  Do what you need to do to get clean and sober or clean and moderately drinking.  At least booze is legal.  Drugs are not in most places at this current time. 

If you can quit or moderate on a non-spiritual basis, do it.  If you need help with that and booze happens to be your problem, I suggest a closed A.A. meeting.  But if they don't ask you to take the path of consideration, "Maybe your're an alcoholic and maybe you're not," run like hell.

Current topic in an Alcohol Recovery Forum about A.A. Closed Meetings

A newbie to the A.A. 12 Step forum:

But that isn't the case for everyone attending an AA meeting. I just started going to AA and the fact that I am a binge drinker who doesn't drink everyday is what kept me away from AA for so long. I thought you had to drink every day to be an alcoholic. So, for a newcomer, it is important to know that alcoholism takes all kinds of forms. Once you know more about it, only then does it become a moot point.

I didn't drink booze everyday.  I drank continuously from time to time during my drinking years, perhaps even successfully at times.

But that would not describe the truth of my drinking history from start to finish.  In fact, I had very long periods of not drinking mixed in to my history, because there were times that I almost killed myself due to dangerous bouts with booze and it did scare me.  I managed to show signs of control/abstinence from time to time.

Conversely.  Being a "continuous hard drinker" does NOT make one an alcoholic.  You can be a continuous hard drinker... thus a daily drinker, and not be an alcoholic.

Anyone who says they drank 24/7 is a fucking liar.  But go ahead and embellish your story if that's how you have to get down.  We do vary much in our drinking patterns/history.

In my A.A. group, we talk about booze... about how we drank, how much we drank, and what happened... when the topic calls for it.  We also do this when we're talking to a new man who is a potential prospect for Alcoholics Anonymous.  What the fuck else would we talk about than that?  The stock market?  The weather?  Our feelings?