... or at least left a particular A.A. group... for whatever reason.
Is there a right/wrong way to do it?
I'm called to approach the person who is leaving our group... or A.A. in general... and at least ask why. But more importantly... I'm called to offer them a piece of advice. Don't just leave the group... or leave the program... and go nowhere. Land somewhere. Have a plan of what you will do instead.
If you've done this, what would you say about this advice? If you agree with it, what is that other "thing" you aimed toward or went after?
In our group, you're either in or you're out.
ReplyDeleteIf you're not in, we are concerned and want to know why you're leaving or sitting on the fence. Most times it's because someone is stuck on a step or doesn't want to do the work... or they're pissed off and want to drink.
As long as you're in good shape spiritually, we're not worried about you. If you go out and drink that's a goddamned shame and the only way it could be worse is if that's me instead of you.
Nice,
ReplyDeleteA topic I have a current experience with. Like I said in a previous post, I don't know about right VS. wrong, there are just various paths. I'm glad my path included not telling groups or people where they could stick it, (believe me I wanted to). Like Jim, I didn't walk away angry, I just walked away.
My #1 reason for leaving AA was and is this. I don't believe everything I used to. I don't believe everything the Big Book says, or everything Bill or Bob had to say. Whenever I voiced these concerns, I felt all open mindedness flew out the window and I was sloganed to death.The fellowship of AA teaches us not to question, a direct contradiction to some of the promises in the basic texts about trusting our insticts, 6th sense, higher plane etc.
As a rule, I try to follow my own advice, I often tell clients, "Live with it until you can't". I did this for 2 years in AA. Thinking maybe some more "advanced inventory" sponsoring more, speaking more, meditating more, maybe that will change my mind, well it didn't. What I learned is that my consciousness is mainly derived from my thoughts which manifest from my actions and thinking.
If someone wanted to leave AA, I would tell them to go as they were moved, they will either drink or they won't, not much any of us can do about it either way. I don't know why AA's fear drinking so much, I loved booze, it gave me releif and treated my interal condition. I feared sobriety.
I've got no qualms with the book up to page 88. Anything after that is lofty, out of reach from my experience, or imo... contrived.
ReplyDeleteBut it is also my belief that the first sober 100 didn't have to call on that stuff for their sobriety either.
I still enjoy A.A. ... what little I see of it. I've actually been to only one meeting a week for the last several months. I'd go to more if I could, but my work conflicts with my favorite other meetings and the times I've been off, my wife has required me to take her fishing... which we both enjoy. The one meeting a week that I do get though is a doosey.
Agree with your response to some bozos in the fellowship.
ReplyDeleteBut where the hell does it say in that book that we ARE powerless? Where the hell does it say in that book that our lives ARE unmanageable?
You do the steps, you get well.
Let's not confuse what step workers say with what anti/exAAer say, ok?
Jim, you emphasized the wrong words in my response.
ReplyDeleteDon't you think going from powerless over alcohol to having access to Power might help us get to a place where we are no longer powerless over alcohol... nor our lives unmanageable?
Take the 10th Step promises for example... this must assume that the step worker has completed 1 through 9 and is moving forward from there.
Jow dod A.A. serve Don, Frank, Jack Mc, etc.? I purposefully left the likes of Mark H and Joe H off the list... God rest their souls... because they became circuit speakers... another can of worms.
Very entertaining exchange b/n all parties. Other than entertainment value I've always understood the purpose of a blog to be the sharing of knowledge. Very strange the different directions the above has taken. To each their own and to thine own selves be true. If it's working for you, God Bless U. I've been following the comments over the past few days and several times my ego has wanted to jump in to state it's case. As my sponsor would say, "I don't get a vote, what I want doesn't matter". For this real alcoholic I am Convinced that Ego/Self is what had defeated me. I have a choice in that today, mainly thru being watchful of my thoughts. My experience is that in watching with my Heart's Eye, slowly, and sometimes very slowly, I begin to fall away from my ego and operate more often from my Heart. That for me is the true gift of sobriety. That true peace and serenity that, I believe, we all want and seek. I remember how hopeless i was when i stumbled in the rooms and the people in the fellowship that loved me enough until I could pass on that same gift to those coming after me. I was taught not to limit that responsibility just to the rooms of AA, but to all areas of my life. Trying to be of service to others, advancing God's Kingdom on earth versus my own. Challenging at times, but nonetheless I have a purpose and direction today, something this selfish, self-centered alcoholic never had before; for that I am forever indebted to God and to AA. Everyday I stay sober is one more day I get to pay down my debt. Always a pleasure fellas. Keep the faith.
ReplyDeleteSorry to go off and play Hall Monitor like that.
ReplyDeleteJack... if you or any other unidenified poster comes in here... state your gender and relative age group please... and give some of us a chance to respond in kind.
If I'm speaking with a child, I'd like to be given the decency to know up front on how to approach. This is not alateen nor is it alatot nor is it Romper Room. Those programs are down the hall and to the left.
If you're a lady, talk like one and act like one and enable us the choice to respond in kind.
If this is an offensive request for you, you're free to move along and find another venue. It's damned hard to read the internet as opposed to some f2f situations.
Today is my first day sober. This is going to be a hell of a journey. I read somewhere that it's a five year journey . If I don't put a STOP to my drinking, my husband that I been with for 12 years will be filing for divorce. I read that the craving people get is the body wanting sugar that it gets from the alcohol. I feel scared that I might have a relapse, something I can't afford to have. Today my husband expressed his feeling to me, he basically said he doesn't deserve this life nor our son. He feels that he needs to move on.
ReplyDeleteI been so selfish, only caring about myself. I been promising my husband that I'm going to give up drinking but the my promises have been broken. My husband basically told me "what makes this time different". I am going to loose everything :(
Welcome to sobriety. Hope it works out for you.
ReplyDeleteYour husband sounds like a whiney bitch. He's going to be hard to not drink at. I'd maybe tell him to make arrangements to do what he has to do... whether you get drunk again or not.
I'm not a marriage counselor or anything, but if you've been with him for 12 years, let me ask you this; did you drink alcoholically before the 12 years or did it happen on his watch? Maybe he drove you to drink. Seriously though... he couldn't have drove you to drink... but why did he choose you in the first place? Were you honestly a moderate, social, or non-drinker before you met him?
If so, why did you become one on his watch? And if you already had signs of problem drinking whatsoever when you first met, why did he sign on?
Let's say you get sober. Do you think there'll be any guarantee that you'll grow back together?
I say forget the stupid marriage and let the chips fall where they may. If you get sober and find a sufficient substitute to booze... say perhaps with the spiritual approach... your life will take on in ways you could not have dreamed and you'll be the mother you always wanted to be... divorced or not... and you'll be the wife you always wanted to be... with him or not.
Good luck.
If you care to, tell us about your drinking. Do you think you're a full-blown alcoholic or maybe just a hard drinker? Do you know the difference? If you're just a hard drinker, do you think you can find the willpower to stop or moderate? If an alky, do you want to quit drinking booze for good and all?
You're right, Patrick, you're not a marriage counselor. Elizabeth's husband has nothing to do with her drinking other than having to live with it. The option he gave her was the right one - stop or else.
DeleteIf you are legitimate, you'll get some reliable info here. If you want to stay sober for 5 years, then it is a 5 year journey, if you want to be done forever, make that commitment, no reservations whatsover. Done drinking for good and all.
ReplyDeleteI recovered from alcoholism using the 12 step program laid out in AA's basic text the BB, worked like a charm, if this is the path you decide, we can help you.If not, you could still probably benefit from some of the experience here.
I walked away from AA about 6 months ago but still use the major tenets of the steps and am in good shape on all fronts.
Patrick (McGowdog) asks a very important question. You have to find out your truth, are you really alkie? It's easy to self diagnose when you have the right information. Good luck.
"When a member of a social religious group has complied with the requirements of such a group, he should be encouraged to enjoy religious liberty in the full expression of his own personal interpretation of the truths of religious belief and the facts of religious experience. The security of a religious group depends on spiritual unity, not on theological uniformity. A religious group should be able to enjoy the liberty of freethinking without having to become “freethinkers.” There is great hope for any church that worships the living God, validates the brotherhood of man, and dares to remove all creedal pressure from its members." Urantia Book 1955
ReplyDeleteColter
Exaxtly wtf I just said. Good job Colter. Now go have a cookie.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to "marital advice", domestic situations, etc., coming to this site for advice is probably not your best bet.
ReplyDeleteWith regards to booze and the recovery thereof... that might be a different story.
There's a line in the book, something to the effect, "Job or no job, wife or no wife (husband or no husband might work here as well)... you can get and stay sober regardless"
That's a paraphrase, off the top of my head. Look it up yourself if you're in doubt.
Joe, shaming the alcoholic and putting conditions on him/her are not in my opinion the absolute best advice. I wouldn't want to be the recipient of it, and I'd be straight up ashamed of myself if I was the perpetrator of it.
That's my opinion of the situation and I'm sticking to it.
Maybe if my claims are bothersome to any of you, an alanot--- er Alonon Meeting are in order.
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DeleteYep, this place is about recovery from alcoholism and all that entails, not a place for drama. Bullshit with former partners, etc are outside issues, I don't give a fuck about it, not my business, don't want to hear about it, dont care, hope I'm being clear. move on.Patrick is kinder than I am, I do not want nor will I respond to e-mails.
ReplyDeleteDon't email Rob.
ReplyDeleteTime to start a new topic. Think I'll call it Page 69.