Wednesday, December 2, 2009

If you don't believe me

It's true! I'm sorry to be the one to tell you this

Bill is dead!

AA is invalid because Bill cheated on Lois!

AA doesn't work because Bill got rich off the work of other people.

Bill did LSD, Bill was crying out for whiskey on his deathbed. Bill smoked like a train and died from emphysema. Bill was a Con-Man. Bill Plaigerized the Book.

What the hell does any of that have to do with anything?????

Seems that AA bashers have attended the Karl Rove school of Debating Techniques

Lesson #1: The first part of any response should be to personally attack the opponent.

Lesson #2: Put incorrect words into your opponent's mouth.

Lesson #3: Misconstrue your opponent's message purposely so as to build a straw man argument that is easier to knock down than your opponent's real argument.

Lesson #4: Take all of the weaknesses in your own position and project them onto your opponent, whether or not true. Later when the opponent picks up how the weakness is really yours, you can point to their unoriginality in throwing it back at you.

Lesson #5: Rather than addressing your opponent's points head-on, insult their intelligence instead and extrapolate your claim of their lack of intelligence as being the reason why their points fail.

Lesson #6: Purposely mislabel your points as "fact", so that it is harder for your opponent to question it.

Lesson #7: Repeat your lie over and over until it sinks in as a possible truth.


  1. Willie! What a bad dude. Sounds like a pro golfer or something.

  2. It would seem that you have lesson 7 down to a science. 2 whole followers now, you are on a roll.

  3. Feel free to itemize the lies that AA stands behind. Then I'll itemize all the lies and cherry picked information that the anti AAers stand behind.
    That's not a statement. It's a dare!

  4. Gee! I'll play.

    AAers; it works if you're a real alcoholic and do the steps. Oh wait. That's the truth. Let me go over to the other side.

    A.A. is a religion and a cult. It's 95% ineffective and it kills alcoholics. AAers are predatory hacks who only want to prey on the vulnerable.

    If you're a MOTRer, then you're brainwashed and a head-nodding drooler. If you're a recovered alcoholic hardliner, you're abusive and selfish, only using their pigeons to help them paint their house and charge money to help them through the steps. You are given no credit whatsoever for staying sober and helping the newcomer find sobriety. You are given no credit for being a success in A.A. and are given all the blame for the MOTRers who stay sober on A.A. slogans and/or treatment center slogans.

    A.A. has a stranglehold on the courts and the treatment centers, forcing judges and professional counselors to send their clients to A.A. so they can get that extra buck in the basket.

    13th stepping is always encouraged and A.A. has complete control over the other sick vulnerable newcomers' habits and behaviors.

    All A.A.s are given power to tell the newcomer that they must not seek outside professional help/counseling and all prescription drugs are to be forbidden and if you do not comply you are to be banned permanently from A.A.

    A.A.s traditions and concepts are put into place so A.A. can completely duck responsibility and accountability and to prevent its competition from putting a stop to it.

    A.A. came about in the mid-30s because there were so many other methods being used on alcoholics that were so effective... that these drunks wanted to sabotage such wonderful progress and bring the recovery of alcoholism back down to its knees, where it belongs.

    An alcoholic has absolutely no right and no motivation and no expertise on the illness of alcoholism. This industry should be left to the experts such as the doctors, psychiatrists, psychologists, therapists, counselors, etc. You've got to go to college for 12 to 20 years and get a plaque that says that you're sane and everybody else is not... in order to help the suffering alcoholic.

    And the bottom line is this; if you want to stop drinking alcohol, just choose not to do so. Then you can spend the rest of your life dogging the A.A. fellowship and tearing apart this fellowship which attempts to help its own and charges no money.

  5. Interesting.
    (1) What I would like to see is anything aside from opinion that will back any disputes with AA
    (2) Along with that I would like to see any documents that will show proof that AA and the conduce of AA members is any different than any other mixed group of people.

    (3) Prove to me any documented success rate since no such information exists.

    (4) Show me exactly when and where AA or its principles have been responsible for the deaths of those that enter the rooms.

    (4) Show me in the Constitution where it states that Judges can't send people to AA. Trust me. I know the establishment clause better than you do.

    (5) Suppose we ask the Judge why he can force me to detox without The Courts also requiring assistance witth the detox.

    (6)Tell me why the Courts can order Antabuse knowing full and well that I work around denatured alcohol.

    Take your silly little issue to the courts and ask them why they send people to AA.

    (7) Holy Christ, the dreaded 13th step. Why don't you google "Teacher charged with sex with student" and then tell me AA has a problem.

    (8) AA is a cult!! Bullshit. AA has an exit strategy. Cults don't. Just walk out the door and don't come back.

    (9) Bill W. said,
    "The only alternative to AA is Jails Institution or Death"
    Will you find me that!! It doesn't exist anywhere. It's an NA thing and the reference is towards untreated addiction. Bill never said it.

    (10) AA is the only answer to alcoholism.
    Find where it says that and show it to me and I'll show you several places where the book says just the opposite.

    Anyone else interested in playing???

  6. Ok... I googled "Is A.A. a Cult?" and came up with this groovy A.A. is a Cult video on the YouTube.

    Watch this little gem... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRnMSXYcpRg)

    ...and we'll see the quality of our opponents! Bunch of nice comments on there too.

  7. "Lesson #2: Put incorrect words into your opponent's mouth."

    Words like... oh, IDK... like "Disease"? Who the fuck ever said A.A. promotes the disease model? That's out-in-out bullshit. That's a debunked myth. The only time the word "disease" is mentioned in the 164 ia on page 64 when it refers to the manifestations of resentment as "spiritual disease" and that' fucking it.

    Another word is "drug". Alcohol is not a drug, it is food you stupid fucks. Take the Dr. off the front of your name because you are no more a Doctor than Laura is and you're not even fit to be your kids' mom, stupid methed-out coke-whore.

  8. Where did the anti-aa'er go ?

    It mocked you for only having 2 followers (you have three) but it's all by itself......what's up with that ?

  9. Good to have you TJ!

    She/he/it was coming in here and polluting our comment section with useless insults and knocks to our manhood.

    I was mainly concerned with adjusting it so you could post here and you're finally aboard.

    I'll continue to cherry-pick authors until we have a head of steam going.

    Unless you guys think we should just open the gates? What do you say?

  10. When the average garden variety anti AA response is limited to insults and name calling with no fact whatsoever the opinion is nothing but opinion.
    Personally I tend to lose interest in anything they have to say after the first few names and character attacks.
    However, I can take it if you can.
    Fair warning!!!! None of them will make my inventory unless for some odd reason their opinion means something to me.
    Somehow, I doubt it will.

  11. Good point Karl!

    I was so busy giving resentments, that I almost forgot to get some of my own!

    And I won't be back around to step 4 again until September of 2010! Oh well.