Well I've been hearing about this from Stinkin' Thinkin', and now a recovery site. So I thought I'd check it out.
I read the blog or whatever that is and don't know what I think about the guy yet. I'd like him to qualify for one thing. I'm not sure he's an alcoholic yet. I don't identify with his story and could care less about his 30 years of continuous sobriety. I want to know if he has to do what I do to stay spiritually fit. What's his experience with the steps? That's all I care about.
As Stinkin' Thinkin' rightly points out, he seems to be an A.A. appologist. A.A. needs no appology, but we'll look into a bit of what he says. Evidently, he has spent some time doing something. We'll try to find out what that is and see if it measures up with my experience in the steps. He says words like disease and addiction and "plug in the jug", which I hate. It's MOTR BS. Wedge. He's full of shit so I can't here him. But we'll see.
I tried to comment on one of the comments and his site wouldn't accept it, so I'll start my comments here;
Hey Sharon, about that 5th comment from 10:34 am on the 25th of August;
It's nice that your brother got sober on Rational Recovery. Whatever works. Sure! If rational thought works for you, do it!
I go to meetings here and there besides my homegroup. My homegroup is closed A.A. and it's just for alcoholics who submit to the steps as they are in the book and we are a group that discusses our experience and that's about it. We don't study the book. We just do it and discuss our current experience on it and we question each other about stuff. It's hard core, if you will.
But I go to these other meetings from time to time and there's this counselor from the local treatment center that's sort of the spiritual guru of this place. He brings his clients to this one meeting on Monday evenings. I ask him about Life Ring, Rational Recovery, SMART, SP, and I wonder if he knows about them. He says he's checked them out and that they may be fine for the hard drinker or hard drug user, but they don't work for the real alcoholic or the real addict. Didn't the founder drink again? Oh, well in that program, they don't talk about that stuff, right? Don't want to label anybody here, right? slipper-ER!!!!!!! Sorry.
Then I asked him about secular recoveries. He said he checked that out too. Evidently, he says, all they do in there is sit around and 8!#ch about A.A.
Friday, August 28, 2009
Thursday, August 20, 2009
Response to the blatherings of missinformed message board posters with regards to Alcoholism
Here's my Frank-induced rant in response to a bunch of MOTR's with regards to recovery. A.A. came up and I heard a bunch of garbage of what A.A. is and what it's not. Here's what my lineage and positive recovery experience has to say about the Program;
If you can get and stay sober on rational thought, do it.
If you can get and stay sober on pleasant thoughts, do it.
If you can get and stay sober on Love Thy Neighbor, by all means, do it.
If you can get and stay sober by letting your favorite guru sprinkle magic dust on you, do it.
But if that stuff doesn't work for you, you might give A.A. a try. The real A.A. is the title of a book. This is the program of action that leads you to an experience and/or personal relationship with God. The places where people meet is called an A.A. meeting or group. This is the fellowship and there's no telling what's going on at any given one across this planet.
There's a myth in A.A. that alcoholics can go to A.A. and get and stay sober. This simply is not true. Most alcoholics in A.A. do not do the work (all 12 steps), they go back out and drink, and they die.
But I have a book that says I can submit my will to God, do a few simple things, take a certain attitude (sweep away prejudice, get honest, and search dilligently within myself), and God will do for me what I cannot do for myself. God will change my mind to where I will not want to drink. The drink problem, aka booze, will no longer be my problem. But I'm asked to give away what was freely given to me and to maintain my spiritual fitness. There are suggestions to prayer and meditation in there. Real sandbox kindergarden stuff. I'm also encouraged to go back to any religions convictions that I may have had prior. "Being quick to see where religious people are right" is encouraged. Dr Bob talks about his opinion on the need for God... not HP!
A.A. is not a philosophy. It's not a dogma. It's not a cult. It's not a theology. A.A. is a set of instuctions. You attach Part A to Part B...etc. It's like a set of swingset instructions. You do certain things, you'll get a certain result. A.A. works. It works every time. But you have to do something. Most people think spirituality is like rain and it will just fall on you. "The spiritual life is not a theory." It's not to be studied or brainstormed. It's like any skill. You don't just become a doctor or a welder. You've got to practice your trade. Spirituality is like a shovel. It takes sweat and callouses and practice.
You can go to a rehab or to a doctor if you're coming down off of booze... if you're "befogged" or "jittery". Then you can commence some recovery program.
You can also go to a treatment center. Go spend $15,000 for 14 day inpatient to have a bunch of "professional" counselors tell you to go to A.A.
But A.A. can ask no money for 12 Step work. Why? Because A.A. is a spiritual program. "...money and spirituality don't mix." pg 166 12x12.
"Almost no recovery from alcoholism has ever been brought about by the world's best professionals, whether medical or religious."
But hey, it's your money.
My group meets once a week. It's closed to alcoholics. That's it. Only alcoholics. We're not interested in drugs at all. We don't have a disease and we're not addicted to alcohol. Addiction is another thing. We don't believe in dual problems either. Why? Because when the heat gets too great, they can just jump to the other problem. Either you're an alcoholic or you're not. We do NOT call alcoholism a disease. One meeting a week and lunch on Friday and anything after that is icing on the cake. We don't give out chips, hugs, read from anything but the 164 of the Big Book and the 12 Traditions Long Form. We don't read A.A. pamphlets, the Grapevine, the 12 and 12, as Bill Sees It, the Daily Reflections, nor the stories in the back except for Dr Bob's Nightmare. We have our own preamble. It's just orthodox and fundamental A.A. Drinking is NOT acceptable in our group. If you're not willing to do steps yearly and quit booze for good and all... we say go back and drink somewhere else... or go to one of those more merciful groups. There's no chanting in our group. No slogans, no chip chick and no chip chico. If you have a yearly birthday, you get cake and you get to chair the meeting. You'd better bring a real A.A. topic about the steps too, because we ain't going to talk about how wonderful you are. If you drink in our group, we don't say, "Welcome back! Keep coming back!" We say, sit down, tell us what happened and let's see what you missed. If you drink, you willfully drink. If you're sick, you're willfully sick. It's not a mystery.
I could give two fiddlers farts about AAWS. It can go broke for all I care. The Presidents of A.A. are each individual in each group. It's an upside down fellowship and because it's free, y'all can't tell us to do Jack!
If you can get and stay sober on rational thought, do it.
If you can get and stay sober on pleasant thoughts, do it.
If you can get and stay sober on Love Thy Neighbor, by all means, do it.
If you can get and stay sober by letting your favorite guru sprinkle magic dust on you, do it.
But if that stuff doesn't work for you, you might give A.A. a try. The real A.A. is the title of a book. This is the program of action that leads you to an experience and/or personal relationship with God. The places where people meet is called an A.A. meeting or group. This is the fellowship and there's no telling what's going on at any given one across this planet.
There's a myth in A.A. that alcoholics can go to A.A. and get and stay sober. This simply is not true. Most alcoholics in A.A. do not do the work (all 12 steps), they go back out and drink, and they die.
But I have a book that says I can submit my will to God, do a few simple things, take a certain attitude (sweep away prejudice, get honest, and search dilligently within myself), and God will do for me what I cannot do for myself. God will change my mind to where I will not want to drink. The drink problem, aka booze, will no longer be my problem. But I'm asked to give away what was freely given to me and to maintain my spiritual fitness. There are suggestions to prayer and meditation in there. Real sandbox kindergarden stuff. I'm also encouraged to go back to any religions convictions that I may have had prior. "Being quick to see where religious people are right" is encouraged. Dr Bob talks about his opinion on the need for God... not HP!
A.A. is not a philosophy. It's not a dogma. It's not a cult. It's not a theology. A.A. is a set of instuctions. You attach Part A to Part B...etc. It's like a set of swingset instructions. You do certain things, you'll get a certain result. A.A. works. It works every time. But you have to do something. Most people think spirituality is like rain and it will just fall on you. "The spiritual life is not a theory." It's not to be studied or brainstormed. It's like any skill. You don't just become a doctor or a welder. You've got to practice your trade. Spirituality is like a shovel. It takes sweat and callouses and practice.
You can go to a rehab or to a doctor if you're coming down off of booze... if you're "befogged" or "jittery". Then you can commence some recovery program.
You can also go to a treatment center. Go spend $15,000 for 14 day inpatient to have a bunch of "professional" counselors tell you to go to A.A.
But A.A. can ask no money for 12 Step work. Why? Because A.A. is a spiritual program. "...money and spirituality don't mix." pg 166 12x12.
"Almost no recovery from alcoholism has ever been brought about by the world's best professionals, whether medical or religious."
But hey, it's your money.
My group meets once a week. It's closed to alcoholics. That's it. Only alcoholics. We're not interested in drugs at all. We don't have a disease and we're not addicted to alcohol. Addiction is another thing. We don't believe in dual problems either. Why? Because when the heat gets too great, they can just jump to the other problem. Either you're an alcoholic or you're not. We do NOT call alcoholism a disease. One meeting a week and lunch on Friday and anything after that is icing on the cake. We don't give out chips, hugs, read from anything but the 164 of the Big Book and the 12 Traditions Long Form. We don't read A.A. pamphlets, the Grapevine, the 12 and 12, as Bill Sees It, the Daily Reflections, nor the stories in the back except for Dr Bob's Nightmare. We have our own preamble. It's just orthodox and fundamental A.A. Drinking is NOT acceptable in our group. If you're not willing to do steps yearly and quit booze for good and all... we say go back and drink somewhere else... or go to one of those more merciful groups. There's no chanting in our group. No slogans, no chip chick and no chip chico. If you have a yearly birthday, you get cake and you get to chair the meeting. You'd better bring a real A.A. topic about the steps too, because we ain't going to talk about how wonderful you are. If you drink in our group, we don't say, "Welcome back! Keep coming back!" We say, sit down, tell us what happened and let's see what you missed. If you drink, you willfully drink. If you're sick, you're willfully sick. It's not a mystery.
I could give two fiddlers farts about AAWS. It can go broke for all I care. The Presidents of A.A. are each individual in each group. It's an upside down fellowship and because it's free, y'all can't tell us to do Jack!
Saturday, August 15, 2009
Where are those abused in A.A. to go?
FTG: Based on what I see in the list of search terms that people use to find our blog, I know that our visitors are righteously pissed off about their experiences in AA. And those are precisely the people we’re here for. They are why we created this blog. But, there’s no censorship on Stinkin’ Thinkin (unless you pull a McGowdog and cut/paste the same 3 words over and over again for a half an hour straight and then hit “post” when you get a hand cramp – in which case we will probably just edit you down a bit so that people can get the gist of your argument without having to take a nap on the scroll button. McGowdog might hate our guts, but it’s not because we didn’t let him speak his mind or give him a fair shake.). What I mean is that the floor is yours. You will never be deleted. Speak your piece.
McGowdog didn't spend 30 minutes cutting and pasting. He used the binary method; cut and paste a few, then recut and paste what you've done a few times, then repeat and in less than a minute, you've annoyed your bloggers.
I went on to make amends to ftg and she graciously accepted, then told me she would continue to bad-mouth us nonetheless and that they like to debate over there. I don't debate this recovery stuff. It's just life and death for some of us and we don't mess around with it. So ftg said they were snakes over there and I believed them and walked away as she slithered off.
If you can stay sober on rational thought, do it. If you can stay sober on kind thoughts, do it. If you can stay sober on love thy neighbor, do it. Then if that works, please don't go to A.A. and get bent on their suggestions and/or directions and spare them your opinions of it. There's a lot of middle of the road/slogan garbage in A.A. That stuff may be helpful to the hard drinker and the lonely misfit, but it doesn't work for some alcoholics that may need a spiritual experience.
Dog A.A.'s suggestions to a spiritual experience all you want. A.A. is not a theology, a philosophy, and it's not a cult or a dogma. A.A. is merely a set of instructions. If you do certain things, you get a certain result. A.A. works, and it works everytime for alcoholics.
A.A. was built on a foundation of one drunk talking to another drunk. When you realize the simplicity of it, and the fact that those afflicted are solely responsible for their own recovery, they lose their value to a whole industry built up around them. Imagine all the paychecks that are signed off as a result of an alcoholic that is
A) drinking
and
B) still alive.
The problem is, alcoholics have a nasty way of dying, so they run out of root stock. It's the non-alcoholics that get hustled into A.A. that causes the problem.
So these poor abused victims that are in A.A., did they get sentenced into A.A. beyond their own will? Were they court ordered? Were they hustled in? I know some people that DON'T go to A.A. They aren't alcoholics or anything, but they don't go. And they don't bitch about A.A. either. What a concept, huh? If I went to PTA meetings, being that I don't have any children, I'd be confused and lost too. I might even eventually be asked to participate and give of my time. Then about 2 years later, I could be a victim too and say, YOU PTA BASTARDS HAVE WASTED MY LIFE!!!!!!! Then I could be a victim like you losers.
I am a real recovered alcoholic and I go to a meeting about twice a week. You loser dorks go to an Anti-A.A. meeting every day. It's called Stinkin' Thinkin'.
McGowdog didn't spend 30 minutes cutting and pasting. He used the binary method; cut and paste a few, then recut and paste what you've done a few times, then repeat and in less than a minute, you've annoyed your bloggers.
I went on to make amends to ftg and she graciously accepted, then told me she would continue to bad-mouth us nonetheless and that they like to debate over there. I don't debate this recovery stuff. It's just life and death for some of us and we don't mess around with it. So ftg said they were snakes over there and I believed them and walked away as she slithered off.
If you can stay sober on rational thought, do it. If you can stay sober on kind thoughts, do it. If you can stay sober on love thy neighbor, do it. Then if that works, please don't go to A.A. and get bent on their suggestions and/or directions and spare them your opinions of it. There's a lot of middle of the road/slogan garbage in A.A. That stuff may be helpful to the hard drinker and the lonely misfit, but it doesn't work for some alcoholics that may need a spiritual experience.
Dog A.A.'s suggestions to a spiritual experience all you want. A.A. is not a theology, a philosophy, and it's not a cult or a dogma. A.A. is merely a set of instructions. If you do certain things, you get a certain result. A.A. works, and it works everytime for alcoholics.
A.A. was built on a foundation of one drunk talking to another drunk. When you realize the simplicity of it, and the fact that those afflicted are solely responsible for their own recovery, they lose their value to a whole industry built up around them. Imagine all the paychecks that are signed off as a result of an alcoholic that is
A) drinking
and
B) still alive.
The problem is, alcoholics have a nasty way of dying, so they run out of root stock. It's the non-alcoholics that get hustled into A.A. that causes the problem.
So these poor abused victims that are in A.A., did they get sentenced into A.A. beyond their own will? Were they court ordered? Were they hustled in? I know some people that DON'T go to A.A. They aren't alcoholics or anything, but they don't go. And they don't bitch about A.A. either. What a concept, huh? If I went to PTA meetings, being that I don't have any children, I'd be confused and lost too. I might even eventually be asked to participate and give of my time. Then about 2 years later, I could be a victim too and say, YOU PTA BASTARDS HAVE WASTED MY LIFE!!!!!!! Then I could be a victim like you losers.
I am a real recovered alcoholic and I go to a meeting about twice a week. You loser dorks go to an Anti-A.A. meeting every day. It's called Stinkin' Thinkin'.
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