Good to have you Joe. I just put in an author request for you and once that's done, you should be able to post and then I can upgrade you to Publisher status too.I hope you don't mind me entering your first ummmm post. If you don't want it here, I'll take it down. I just thought it was very fitting here.
I agree, A.A. recovery rates are a foolish game, as is drumming up a rate for those who quit on their own.
Joe Cool writes:
Joe Cool has joined the blog.
Ref the AA Triannual Survey - it's a snapshot in time and that's all. GSO is merely interested in membership data, and the survey (which is available on the aa website) is not intended to make any predictions about success rates. If you ask, their response is "Rarely have we seen a person fail..."
Recovery rates are bullshit anyway. What's recovery? Staying sober for 5 years? Perhaps 10? I was sober for 10 years and went back out. Was I part of the success side one day and the failure rate the next? I know folks who have gone back out after 20 years. So how does anyone measure recovery rates when we can't even define the measurement criteria.
Leave the statistics to folks who like to write papers. They're all bullshit anyway. You say that 20% of alcoholics recover on their own. How did you find that out? Is there a registration site for alcoholics who don't use AA and stop drinking? Is there a list of people who walk out the doors and stay sober by some other means? Recovery rates are great for Rehab Centers who use bullshit data to attract new clients and get on the insurance companies' approved list.
On the down side, I recently read a member of Congress (woman, can't remember her fckn name) who objected to the new Health Care Bill including any federal funds for rehab of addicts and alcoholics since the recovery rate is so small. And she has a good point.
So I don't waste my time defending AA against the morons who are trying to sell their program by attacking AA and saying their recovery rate is better or saying that AA is a cult or any other such bullshit. If we ignore them, they all go away. If we defend AA we give them free publicity.
AA has been around for a long time. Consider that this program has no rules, no one in charge, abhors structure and authority and insists on anonymity for all its members. How does such a program continue to exist and grow if it isn't a success? We've been around a long time, we're here today and we'll be here for a long time to come. Don't like it? Well as I say on ** (and get edited out for saying it) I hope you have a good Plan B.
And that's my rant for the day.
Hey Joe.
ReplyDeleteNice post.
There is a site...hindsfoot I think it is that explains it in detail. (see below)
But for the record, that 5% statistic from AA's triennial survey is pure bullshit anyway.
That chart that Orange and youtubers say shows a 5% rate, actually shows a 26% rate.
I've been able to explain it to 2 anti-aa people. They both still attend the occasional meeting but like to put AA through the ringer online.
The hardcore anit-AA's are just fanatics.
But you are right about the statistics being bullshit anyway. Those of us who have experiences the program know it works. Others can only guess. Just like anything else in life.
Hello Joe. Good to have you here.
ReplyDeleteRecovery rates????
Someone walks into AA because their wife threatend to leave. They made up the next day and the husband decided he didn't need to go to AA because he agreed to control his drinking. I see it all the time.
Therefore, in the twisted mind of Orange AA provided a 0% recovery rate in this case. Even if he goes again next year and quits drinking for good and becomes an active member AA will still do no better than 50%. Ever!
I guess since I didn't get my Hiking Merit Badge in the Boy Scouts the Boy Scouts failed me.
Talk about a Cult. They even prey on young boys.
Good one Orange.
Has Orange been as quiet as MA, ftg, and speedy lately?
ReplyDeleteIf so, maybe they're focussing their attenion over on certain Recovery Forums.
Ah... just a theory. No way to confirm.
But it would sure explain the recent rash of shittyness of posts and threads in the 12 Step.
Watching Jack Bauer! Nice aquisition of the fire hatchet... and a nice weapons upgrade.
ReplyDeleteThen the helicopter blows up. Yada yada.
Jack Bauer is my sponsor.
SR to McGowdog
ReplyDeleteYou have been banned for the following reason:
Rule 4---repeatedly
Date the ban will be lifted: Never
Two things here. If it exists, I didn't see it but we need a disclaimer saying that in no way, shape or form do we represent Alcoholics Anonymous. We're just a bunch of drunks that are members of AA and take offense when the morons out there attack the program with misinformation. We strongly admire those who attack the program using facts and accuracy, but we haven't found anyone yet.
ReplyDeleteSecondly, are we trolling the net looking for idiots who assault AA? Soundn't we make better use out time and efforts helping those who really need it? There are a lot of souls out there in desperate need of help who would walk through the doors in a minute if they clearly understood what the program is about. I would suggest that we'd be better off attracting these poor souls by sharing the positive aspects of AA and what it's done for us as opposed to putting down the idiots who want to sell their program for a mere $198.00 in the form of a loose leaf binder.
And that's my rant for the day.
Good points Joe.
ReplyDeleteOn the first one, I had a standard disclaimer up there in a prior post and just reposted it and added a paragraph mentioning the addition of some authors besides myself. I will try to add a condensed form of your suggestion under the blog title.
On your second point, absolutely as well. Keep in mind that this blog started out of a realization that some punks over at Stinkin' Thinkin' were mocking and disecting all of our posts from the SR website. They started posts wiht our names directly in it, had quotes of the week featuring us, and graciously used profanities and insults along the way.
So yeah, they got our attention, but for us to go trolling for them is ridiculous. There are some funny youtube vids out now though. I do like to glance once in a while.
But you bring up two good points.
Well, in order for anti-AA misinformation to lead a suffering alcoholic astray (possibly killing him) all we need to do is say nothing.
ReplyDeleteDiscretiting myths so the truth is represented is not a waste of time, imho and probably could be counted as step work of a kind.
Hey TJ, can I call you?
ReplyDeleteYou don't have my cell number, you have my work number. I'm home until Wed. (Government work...lol !!)
ReplyDeleteDo you have my e-mail from when I signed up ?
McGowdog, Loved the Asshole youtube vid. I especially like the "Being an asshole is part of my manly essence" I'm gonna make a poster out of that one.
ReplyDeleteTJ, You make a good point about discrediting the bullshit out there. Point is, it seems that by discrediting them on this blog we're preaching to the choir. We need to get the arguments out in the public. Maybe get something that we can put up on Google to show everyone that Orange and his ilk are full of shit. Anyone got any ideas/suggestions?
ReplyDeleteJoe cool...keep talking...that is certainly enough for the "public" to witness the aa program at its finest.
ReplyDeleteWe're really not interested in the "public" anymore than the "public" is interested in us when we are doing our A.A. work.
ReplyDeleteI just got back from the hospital. My lungs weren't working right for about the last week or two and I'm not a smoker. I was getting worried, as I think I started to cough up blood. So I went in and they couldn't do the cat scan on me to check my lungs, but thought from x-ray I might have a tumor or blood clot on my lung. Then they take me to the hospital via ambulance and I get to stay the night. They do the special nuclear scan on my lungs and it checks out ok, but now they're worried about my heart. I tell them I have had a slight irregular heart beat as long as I can remember, but my pulse is way high, but bp is settled. In fact, it was 106/50 at one time and my pulse got back down to 80. This inhaler they were giving me made me breathe better but sent my pulse up way high. Finally, the doc comes in and says, you've got bronchitis. We'll get you some pills to replace the needles and get you outta here.
Now, should I have told them, oh, I may also have a drinking problem. Can you give me something for that?
We are recovered alcoholics in here Madeline. We will talk. And we'd like to hear from unrecovered alcoholics that would appreciate our help. If you don't want our help, why don't you go down to the good will and donate your thoughts there. We're busy saving lives in here.
Glad to be back.
McGowdog
I'm sorry you are not feeling well McGow. It must have been a scary week for you. Before I trot on down to the good will office I would like to ask you why would you even bring up your past drinking to the doctor when you were not there for that matter? You no longer drink, it would be a complete non issue.
ReplyDeleteWell, they do know that I'm an alcoholic in recovery and I prefer a little physical pain and natural healing over just pumping me up wiht dilaudid every 2 hours like my roomate next to me.
ReplyDeleteBut I also need to let the healthcare people working on me know that I'm free from booze for 6 years and cigarettes and other mind-altering drugs as well.
I'm a fairly healthy indiviual, especially lately. But you sometimes wonder about the wreckage of the past. They ask me if I ever smoked. I say not anymore. Then they ask, what about when you were drinking? Oh, about a pack an hour.
I hear you on the smoking like a fiend while drinking...the two seemed to go hand in hand. I am different that you in the respect that my past drinking history is a non issue. Fortunately none of my major organs were compromised so the history unless specifically asked about never comes up.
ReplyDeleteAs far as human capacity to endure physical pain I would have to agree...a little pain lets me know I am alive. Women can endure far more than men anyway! LOL
And you can surely dish out a fair share as well... Lollerskates.
ReplyDelete