Here is a little exchange with some anti-AA's who consider themselves way too smart to fall for AA's lies :
Anti-AA smart guy :
AA helps many with nowhere else to go.
I simply do not agree with many of the tactics and programming.
What people believe becomes their self fulfilling prophecy. This is where teaching jails, institutions, and death is dangerous.
Acronymic sayings are assumed to be true and are misleading. If any “recovery” would be permanent, it would need to be truthful and have substance.
AA’s typically rationalize their actions under the belief that what they do is for the greater good. This is a total lack of humility and in direct conflict with the literature.
If I am to be rigorously honest, I am not going to react to any programming, I am going to think and make decisions based on balanced information that reflects the closest approximation to the truth that I can assimilate.
{{Note, the anti-AA has just said that drunks have bad lives not because of alcohol but because AA tells them they will.....WTF ??}}
Tony J :
Most chronic alcoholics do end up in jails, institutions or dead. Read the Big Book. Do you think all the original members of AA made that stuff up ?
Go to a meeting and listen to the stories told by the speakers. Are they making that stuff up ?
Why shouldn’t AA talk about that consequences of long term alcoholic drinking ?
If I tell you that you’ll die if you run out in front of a bus and then you run out in front of a bus and are killed, it’s not because I put the idea in your head. It’s because buses kill people when they hit them.
Anti-AA smart guy's sidekick :
jails, institutions and death.
You are in an institution. AA.
AA is the designated storage facility for ass holes like you.
Anti-AA smart guy :
Jails, institutions, and death aren’t mentioned anywhere AA’s book of mythology. I have read it, many times, and suspect that most of it is contrived, at least the first section.
As for the drunkalogues in meetings, many of them become embellished over time.
The bad analogies seem endless. I can run out in front of busses all day long, as long as they aren’t moving.
{{Again we see the anti-AA put for the idea that no harm can possible come from alcoholc but only from AA.....WTF ??}}
Anti-AA smart guy 2 :
“Most chronic alcoholics do end up in jails, institutions or dead. Read the Big Book.”
That’s like saying “Allah is the true God, read the Koran.”
MOST alcoholics, 80%, quit without any program or treatment
{{This genius thinks Most alcoholics end up in j, i, or d = Allah is the true God. WTF ????? Also, he admits that 20% of alcoholics can't quite without treatment. Primo.}}
In conclusion I have traveled back in time to glimpse a 'future' anti-AA being told by his mother that boys are different than girls......... this guy still thinks there is no difference and he's 38 now !!
No way could THAT particular kid be antiA.A. He looks way too cool. And can I say... MILF Alert?!
ReplyDeleteI can't help but to be amazed by the actions taken by people who can't differentiate what is and isn't any of their business.
ReplyDeleteFirst off they have to find a cause to rebel against. Then they have to fabricate reasons they're against it. Then they have to spread their BS all around cyberspace.
Most normal thinking people would go to AA and try a couple meetings. If they didn't like it they would stop going and only offer their opinion if and when they were asked. Assuming they weren't self centered bitter resentful prideful assholes they would say "I tried AA and it wasn't for me". Instead whip out their shovel and start to spread bullshit and they lay it on pretty thick.
AA is not just about quitting drinking you morons.
It's a design for living that takes away the pride, selfishness, self centered attitudes that you can't seem to get rid of.
Certainly you may have quit drinking. So what!!!
If AA was simply about quitting drinking it would be a one step program.
Then these simpletons insist on showing graphs that some other simpleton created.
The dumb asses even showed a chart showing that AA was the most effective method and were too dumb to know how to read it.
This one!! The column on the right shows the effective percentage in the study, excellent being 100%
http://www.behaviortherapy.com/whatworks.htm
If it has been in order of effectiveness than "Brief Interventions would be the winner.
Why didn't I think of that??
Then when we have the audacity to point out their stupidity and their dedication to a cause that really isn't of any matter they say AA doesn't work because we're supposed to
"Live and let Live"
Another thing that confuses me about these antiAAers is... as TJ points out... how they dissect and make fun of any type of spiritual discipline and/or religion but won't go so far as to claim that they are atheistic or agnostic. They want to represent and appeal to the masses as well. They want to pit A.A. against all and say that it serves neither the atheist nor the pious.
ReplyDeleteThey all seem to be bozos who went to A.A. for 19 long years and so they are experts on the ins and outs of A.A. and they know just exactly how cultish, brutal and wasteful it all is... but it took them 19 years of torcher to get there. And the whole while they were there for 19 years, they were somehow ammune from assholedome themselves. How does the logic of that all work out? I don't understand.
I go after them for the same reason reason I go to the Zoo and make faces at the Monkeys.
ReplyDeleteThe Monkeys won't take it as a hint that they're amusing but I get a kick out of it.
Someone recently entered this as a post on that Mentalhelp "Is A.A. a cult" blog;
ReplyDelete"I've recently been to 6 weekly AA meetings as part of my PHD. What a load of nonsense. The people I met there have more problems than drinking or lack there of.
That organisation is praying on some pretty weak distrubed people and the guy that was running the show claiming to be 21 years sober, stunk of alcohol on his breathe and was drunk.
Straight of the bat at my first meeting I have people telling me I have a disease and my life is unmanageble ...
Well, I am healthy, my life is great at this time and I don't have a drinking problem.
My impression of these meetings is that these people are brainwashed and that worries me."
Is this one of you guys making fun of an antiAAer or is there someone really this retarded?
That's bullshit. Ask any Doctor and they'll tell you that they get about half a day classroom time dealing with alcoholism.
ReplyDeleteBesides if anyone was allowed in it must have been an open meeting. Where were the addicts???
Anyways, it wasn't me. I think someone was really "that stupid"
Hey fella's. What's shakin ??
ReplyDeleteDawg, did you cut and paste that quote ?
I would expect a person working on their 'PHD' to know the difference between 'pray and 'prey'.
If that wasn't your typo it probably says all you need to know bout the poster.
I do think the average Anti-AA is insane, bored, drunk or a combination of the 3.
Not to mention having a compulsive desire to be 'intelligent' but not being overly gifted in logic and reasoning skills.
Karl, that study was skewed in a very subtle way. They never reported the 'outcome' of the treatments listed. They combined 'outcome', 'number of studies' and'scientific methodology of the study' to come up with the rating.
The number of studies and methodologies should not count for which treatment is better. Treatments that are in the same category can be rated against each other, but that's all.
It was a rigged study designed to sell books and treatments. AA pisses the mental health community off because it's free and it manages to do what they can't. So what ? There are plenty of mental health and social problems they can deal with. Some of them are just crooks though. Snake oil salesmen as the anti-AA's like to say.
So we can't take any information gathered as a result of a BS study and skew that information to suit our desired outcome?
ReplyDeleteThat's not really fair since everyone else gets to do that.
I'm going to take on the institution of marriage as my next challenge.
My study says that everyone that has either killed or beaten their spouse was married at the time.
That's 100%
Married people have cheated on their spouse 95% more than unmarried people do.
Marriage is "Religion" because almost everyone gets married in a church.
Blah, Blah, Blah!!!
Karl, your link showing that there is and never has been good scientific evidence of any rate or recovery in AA was very good.
ReplyDeleteThat's the honest truth. Anyone claiming studies good or bad is wrong. We can only go by anecdotal evidence and common sense.
Oh, by the way, Hitler was married. So marriage is a Nazi institution.
I don't think it matters though. Most of the anit-aa's probably can't get a girl to date them, let alone marry them. They probably would go along with marriage being evil, just out of jealously.......
Q: What's the cure for an anti-AA fanatic ?
A: Poontang, and pleanty of it !!
Hey, what's going on?
ReplyDeleteI did cut and paste that from TJ's old stomping ground. Remember that old "cult" blog?
SR is down for a bit.
That's a funny analogy about marriage and A.A. We would have to play up the cult aspects of it too.
Yeah Karl, there's some real "winners" over here at the Mentalhelp site. Here's the blog that won't end;
ReplyDeletehttp://www.mentalhelp.net/poc/view_doc.php?type=doc&id=9527&cn=14
You could say I cherry-picked Tony from over there. There's another guy from over there I'd like to recruit; Marcus. Don't know how to get his attention.
Here's another antiAA bitch session that brings up some more pissing and moaning;
ReplyDelete""Please hear us - Stop the madness - Jan 10th 2010
I am part of the "majority" of people whom, have been utterly hurt and abused, from the dangerous cult, called AA. Mark, you say you work in mental health, I am BEGGING you to please see that, AA not only hurts people, but also kills people. Mark, would you please answer the following:
How do you feel about a place, that is suppose to be for "treatment" that tells people to stop taking their medication??? that is, with people who suffer from major forms of "depression". Mark, how do you think it feels, to watch young people, commit suicide, because some "freak" from AA has told them, to stop taking their medication? Cant you hear us??? Can't you see as a health professional, what is really happening in so so many AA meetings? We need YOUR support and you guys are NOT coming threw for us. When I FINALLY got out of that wacky cult of AA it was then, that my life changed for the BETTER. If i told you that, my meds were NOT working, wouldn't you prescribe something else? What do we have to do? How many people have to die?
AA is not a place for treatment or rehabilitation, it is a place for indoctrination. AA is a place where you become ridiculed, mentally beaten down, LIED to, and totally ABUSED...and most of us have already been abused in our upbringings and then, we think, that we FINALLY have a place of refuge to quit alcohol and then, to our HORROR we are totally abused AGAIN, from these CREEPY 12 steppers. You have to experience this hands on, I guess that is the only way you will ever develop any EMAPTHY towards us. I am now, totally clean and have been for 10 years. and I only got this way, when I left that FREAKY CREEPY cult called AA. You should try it, when they don't stop calling you and they, will pin you down and yell at you that your no good and that your not sober and you need more and more meetings. Also, if you don;'t believe in the AA GOD, than God help you PLEASE PLEASE hear us, we need YOUR support and we are really getting hurt out hear because you Dr'.s are NOT listening to us. 12 steppers will go on and on how good AA is and it may be good for 5 people out of 100 but what about the other 95 of us??? Please Mark, will you see that so so many people get hurt from that QUACK medicine and that AA, in fact, is like Scientology, that is regarding taking medications. They are KILLING people I knew a poor young guy who took his life because of his CREEP sponsor and so so many of us are leaving and joining the ANTI- AA MOVMENT again please, tell your superiors about what is happening to us and PLEASE will you take off the sunshine that you spit out on your website. I thought you wanted to help people and you are HURTIHG us from advocating this EViL place called AA.
I am really BEGGING you please hear us, so many of us have already suffered to much in our lives""