Wednesday, January 20, 2010

Worthless Drunks Sent Packing

The only requirement for membership is that you play by the rules and stay in the popular clique.....

I'm starting to get a complex. For the second time in as many months I've found that I didn't fit in to a site where they claim to be interested in sobriety. The first time I left of my own accord. This time I (and a bunch of my friends) were banned. Why ? I don't know really. We expressed some traditional AA views and had a little social group where we could hang out and chat without bothering the community at large. It seems that some AA's use the fact that they aren't in AA as an excuse to not 'practice the principals' of the program in all their affairs.

It looks like our little group of Big Book thumpers fell astray or the 'powers that be' on Sober Recovery. Much like Christian Science they are interested neither in sobriety or recovery over there. Our posts were regularly locked and deleted and we talked about walking on egg shells. You always had the feeling that the other shoe was gonna drop. A bunch of dried up old bitties with a little too much time on their hands if you ask me.


  1. I would have sworn I saw Orange somewhere about the middle of that School bus.

  2. Orange....sitting in the park feeding ducks like the dirty old man in laugh-in.


  3. Nurse Ratched... PERFECT... Remember in the movie when she reduced Billy to stuttering and tears after he proudly announced to the group he'd screwed a whore on their field trip... That castrating Bitch... Then Billy went off and sliced his wrists... that's when McMurphy tried to strangle her... Poor McMurphy, he wasn't psychologically castrated like Billy Bibbet, nooo... Lobotomy... I guess I would rather have a bottle in front of me... LOL!!!

    I can hear it now... Calling from the Moderator's, um, no, sorry, the Nurses Station... Please come to the window... Patrick, Tony, Karl. Mark... Time for your meds...

  4. would somebody please tell me what has happened to the unity that is in tradition 1 ?


  5. ...probably more likely that "the only requirement for membership" is that one does not advocate too strongly for anything that might offer people solid, real-life, free-to-inexpensive recovery that doesn't neccessitate their spending mucho dinero on the "recovery" products and services offered by THAT site's backers/sponsors...

    Hate to mix movie metaphors, guys, but isn't it always about "follow the money"??????

    Anyway, I'm trying to find Mark (Cubile) to respond to some messages from him. (He told me about this blog yesterday.) So, Mark, if you read this, please e-mail me at: only_1_freyja@yahoo.com

    Miss you all -- freya

  6. Miss you too freya! This is NOT a stag meeting! You're welcome here. In fact, we could use the woman's touch. Someone to keep us inline and behaving like gentleman.

    We can gladly set you up as an author if you would like.


  7. I feel like the lost sheep. They not only threw you guys out but when I look at my "friends" all I see is question marks instead of neat avatars. I think I'll stay undercover for a while. If they found out I was associating with a bunch of people who talked sense, they'd throw me out too.

  8. Sounds like you're hanging out with a bad crowd Joe.

  9. "Castrating Bitch" ..... ROFLMAO !!!!

    That's the phrase I was looking for.

    Freya, I hope you're wrong but I think you're right. It's very possible that the 'orders' came from higher up. But, any AA member worth his or her salt would have told them to...well, pound salt. imho.

  10. A while back, a well=known AA member joined SR. I promised him I would honor his wish to remain anonymous.

    Anyway, he questioned some of the tactics used to suppress the truth and brought out SR's backing, The Mulligan Group. The entire site is a front for the treatment industry. He was banned for that.

  11. I love the fact that they'll allow reference to a website that's associated with the Mullican Group but never one that isn't. I get the standard "We don't allow reference to other websites" if I try. Bullshit. They don't allow reference to anything that's viewed as competition. Sometimes I feel badly for the mother hens. I wonder how they can maintain any sense of integrity while enforcing some of the bullshit rules. The site has gone from a place where you could get a good discussion going about recovery to one that thrives on Pap and Pronouncements. All I read now is meaningless drivel. But I will continue to call people on their crap until they toss me. It's a Divine Mission now! How long will Joe Cool last....?
    And that's my rant for the day.

  12. Jim...I remember the poster of which you speak...funny thing he was not indifferent to the bullshit. He knew the difference between the truth and a lie.

  13. The other night after I found out what happened to you guys, I started poking around the Mulligan Group. What I found interesting about the MG is if you go to the bottom of any of the pages where it says "contact us" or "legal info" I had dead links -- NOTHING!!

    When I searched the MG for a BOD I found a pdf that contained names of board members associated with treatment facilities is GA. Now the question remains is how legit are they if their legal information isn't viewable to the public because my guess is that they are a non-profit -- sanctioned by the feds. If that is the case they are in violation of federal laws.

    Anyway...I'm glad a mutual friend told me where I could find those that live and breathe the Book! Just sorry it had to come to this!

  14. hmmmm.... this is a very interesting topic for me.

    I was "banned" from Stepchat a few years ago for the exact same thing you are talking about here.

    So, I took my "modem and coffee pot" and started up a BIG BOOK SAFE chat room alll by myself! lol

    Our chat room is BIG BOOK FRIENDLY which means that in "online recovery" we are NOT the busiest room on the net ! lol

    Oh well, what do you expect from a fellowship so blinded by the treatment world.

    Maybe we will meet again... not sure.

    God Bless from Canada, eh !

    PS: I "found" this blog from a post on frobulox's site.

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  16. Rehab is the only answer. Hollywood teaches us that and they have Sales Reps to sell us on that very thing. Rehab is the only thing that actually works. It's like a Sobriety Factory. You stagger in as a drunken lush on one end and out comes a flawless sober person on the other end.
    You would think that Brittney ,Lindsay and Prince Harry should be receiving some kind of compensation for the free promotion they gave the industry.
    I think Rehab has a 95% failure rating too. Fortunatley they have an "out". You didn't follow your prescribed treatment plan. Your "Treatment Plan" consisted of 2 years worth of regular AA meetings. We call it "Aftercare" if it makes anyone feel better.
    If we call it "Aftercare" it means you have to cough up $12,000.00 for "Rehab" first.
    It's a little softer and fluffier than saying
    "Go to AA", but it costs more so that means it works better.
    Don't most "Rehabs" have a 12 step base and get you through step 5 during your 28 day sabatical?

  17. I was in rehab for two months... I did not want to be there. But I wanted to feel better and get recovered. I came out of rehab humiliated and confused. It wasn't until I had my own experience in steps 2 and 3 did I begin to feel better. There was no way that was gonna happen, but I did fill out my step 2 and 3 worksheets so I could get released.

  18. There are good Treatment Centers, but not too many. Fr Martin's Ashley comes to mind as a good one. I needed rehab as a place to go where I couldn't drink for a month while I got my head straight. But that's all the particular center in southeastern N.C.I went to was good for. It seemed that their main mission was to push Vivitrol, an injectable form of Naltrexone. I even heard one "counselor" stand up in front of 150 people and say that Vivitrol prevented you from getting drunk.

    Four weeks after I left the place I got a follow-up call to see how I was doing and, more importantly, have I started on Vivitrol?
    I told the caller what I thought of the place and their prostituting themselves for a drug company and never heard from them again. But I got my 4 week hiatus and promptly walked back into the rooms of AA. But that's what I needed at the time, and the rehab center served its purpose. But that's all it was good for. I wish I could have gone to Ashley but w/o any money or insurance coverage it was not to be.

    I could tell you the horror stories of all the young 20 somethings that were doing drugs the day after they got out, and I'm sure that these kids never showed up on the center's posted "recovery rate". That would affect the bottom line which, of course, was to make a lot on money. But you already know all that...

  19. I go to meetings in my hometown sometimes, but not everytime. It meets once per week. They used to have the druggie buggie bring the guys from the treatment center in town there.

    Lately, they were getting a slew of military folks in with PTSD. They were eventually made to feel not welcome and found another meeting. But I was given the opportunity to talk to my favorite alcoholic/addict counselor that brings them and asked him why he brings them to a strong A.A. meeting on that night and not the NA or CA meetings at the Alano Club in town.

    He told me it's because he knows strong recovery and he prefers showing them a good A.A. meeting. Made some sense to me. Then I asked him if he'd heard of other recovery methods like MM, RR, LR, SMART, etc. He said he checked that out and their recovery rates are aweful. Then I asked him about secular recoveries. He said he checked that out too and he said all they do in there is sit around and bitch about A.A.


  20. Speaking of treatment centers. Navysteve is the secretary of a meeting that is taken to a treatment center about an hour from me. He invited me to come and share at the speaker/discussion meeting there on Saturday afternoons. It was cool to meet Navysteve and it was the first time I was at a rehab since I was discharged.

    It was funny... All the people in treatment sat on one said of the room, the AAs from the community on the other... kind of like families at a wedding. It was a good meeting and I'm glad I went.

    They had a break at 30 minutes so the inpatients could have a smoke...

  21. The "Druggie Buggie"? That's pretty good. The Halfway House up here is about 2 miles from an Alano Club. They make them walk. You can see herds of them walking down the street.
    That's good because it separates the ones that are actually interested from the ones that just want to get out of the house. Unless they're Court ordered to go. Then the walk must suck.
    If they wouldn't go to the club they may actually run into someone that understands AA as far as the protocol goes.
    Then the dummies could start a meeting at the house and wouldn't have to go anywhere!

  22. I work in a treatment center and I am constantly at odds with how I am going to reconcile what I know to be true with the philosophy taught there.

    Some months ago, I was asked to do an educational group for the clients, or rather patients in our detox unit. I was asked by the person in charge of the detox because sher had sensed that maybe I have found an answer and she is frustrated by our low success rate. She asked me if I could base my work from a 12-Step approach and I told her that the 12-Step approach is all I know. I do this once or twice a week in one hour sessions. In my groups I have mostly alcoholics and opiate addicts with your occasional meth head thrown in, so I have to develop an approach that isn't substance specific but addresses the root of the "disease" and the solution to that.

    I think that occasionally I have alcoholics and or addicts in my groups that have reached that place of true desperation and have reached a few of them.

    Last week, a few of the counselors and interns sat in on my group, wanting to see what I do. Right off the bat I told them that in some ways what I "teach" is completely contrary to what they have learned.

    I might add that I am not a counselor or CDP. I am one of the maintenance staff.

  23. As a retired member of that fine organization - the U.S. Navy, I want to add that their rehab program is probably one of the best. I used to send people there, which is ironic in that I should have sent myself there. I didn't go through my first rehab until after I retired, and only then to get my wife off my back. But I've since gone to the local center here in Norfolk and spoken to the folks who were just about finished with the program. They're kind of shocked to learn that relapse is a no shit problem they're going to have to face, and I'm a prime example of one who has been there.

    And Jim, I loved your story. I always wonder how some counselors can live with themselves spouting whatever the "cutting edge" treatment program that they're paid to endorse is, knowing that there's a better way. And that way has been around for 75 years. I always like to tell new members that this is the easier, softer way they're looking for. But it's not easy, and it's not soft.

  24. If I'm not mistaken, Jim is nowhere near the "counselor" or "professional" end of things there.

    On Danny's blog, a question/answer came up just this morning on a similar topic;

    Q: Are there AA "counselors", therapeutic specialists or clinical approaches of any kind?

    A: there was to be no professional class of therapy.

    Many professionals want us to believe that they are "Twelve Step friendly" – and that their "class of therapy" is somehow AA compatible. They may be cordial and verbally supportive but their activities and therapies are not supported by the solution presented in the twelve steps. Not the version proposed in this book anyway.

    The good thing about what Jim's group does, they bring A.A. into these places (various institutions of the groups' chosing, I believe) and run it "their" way... the A.A. way.

  25. IDK... In fairness to some rehabs... what are they gonna do really? Their mission is slightly different than AA. It has to be.

    The treatment center I went to was very 12 step friendly. The medical director himself ran the Big Book study meetings. They didn't try to rush anyone through the steps, but strongly encouraged the first three... workshops, self study. Daily AA or NA meetings. After a month, I went to twelve step meetings in the community... I had to find my own way... temporary sponsor, asking people for rides who came in for meetings, stuff like that.

    But they also tried to get people to as high a functioning level as possible as quickly as they could... CBT was in full force (I resented it.) and then of course group therapy...

    Although I ran into counsellors at the AA meetings in town, they really didn't function as surrogate sponsors... I think by design.


  26. Subtlety is better than force? Well sure it is.... if it comes from Power.

    Power always gives.

    Force always takes.

    I think the treatment centers would be much better if they would just always help their clients find their own truth and leave it at that.

    You know why a drug is a drug is a drug, right? I heard it the other day; only one van.

  27. McGowdog is right, I am not a professional at the facility I work at. I am on the maintenance staff and was asked to work with detox patiernts in a lay capacity. I do get paid for it, so I guess in a way I am a professional, but what I'm doing at work isn't AA. But it is based on personal experience with spiritual principles.

    In all fairness, counselors are well-intentioned and have the client's best interest at heart. But they are, for the most part misguided and ill-informed. There are counselors that work where I work that aren't alcoholic or addicts. Yet they are trying to teach clients how to write inventory. So now I am giving training to the counselors about how to write inventory because I told the clinical dorector that you can't transmit an experience you haven't had and that you can't take inventory out of context, that it is part of a process. I also told her that you can read a book about being an astronaut but that doesn't make you an astronaut.

    And Dog is right about what my group does. We take AA into these places and run it as an AA meeting. One place tried to tell us how to run it and we politely told them that we wouldn't be bringing meetings into their facility anymore.

  28. Most counselors that I've run across in good rehabs, who run small groups through the entire program according to some schedule are pretty well qualified. All the ones I've dealt with were recovering addicts/alcoholics. If they work for a rehab center that is strong AA then those who finish the program have a good foundation. And at the same time they try to help the patients find their own truth, but the success there depends on the patient.

    Having said that, it when the "rehabilitation assistants" conduct large group exercises that shit hits the fan. These are the ones that are paid little more than minimum wage and receive OJT on how to hold meetings. I watched some stand there and scream at the patients, threatening to discgharge everyone because they didn't take their seats quickly enough. These folks don't have a clue and can undo any good a qualified counselor has done in no time. And "counselors" in detox programs? Let's not even go there.

    So it comes down to is rehab even of value and if so, how. I think for most people who WANT to get sober it's valuable. And that's probably about 30% of the population. The rest are there because of threats from jobs of families or, in some cases, just to dry out so the can drink again. And value depends solely on the emphasis on the 12 steps of AA.

    And then sometimes you get a situation where wisdom and experience can come out of the blue and turn a program around. Most often this happens when they have a good maintenance staff....

  29. Yes... a strong maintenance staff.

    The local CDU in my town has a counselor that I believe to be a recovered alcoholic, a recovered addict too... if there is such a thing... and has had and is seeking profound spiritual experiences.

    I haven't been to one of their Wednesday night meetings in a long time because they usually have a fellow alumni member lead the thing and I really hate the format. In fact, I have a blog post in here about it somewhere titled "What are A.A. meetings in Pueblo Colorado like".

  30. Believe me, doing what I'm doing now wasn't in my plans when I took this job.

    It is just what happens when my life is none of my business and I let God take me to the place I need to be.

    When I am no longer needed there, it will be time to move on.

  31. So were y'all stirring up trouble over there?

    Every now and again we get pingback link to Sober Recovery from someone who found our blog and linked it in a post. It always gets moderated out pretty quickly.

  32. Were we stirring up trouble? Sure, from the very start.

    I think it's strange that it gets moderated out at all, as some of our biggest detractors are probably the same people... your site and SR. I know for a fact that some of my adversaries are from both places. You could have an account over there for all we know.

    Your brand of sobriety if surely more accepted over there than ours ever was. Contrary to your belief, we aren't winning any popularity contests in cyberworld or in the f2f world.

    Between yourself, the blame guys, Orange, etc., I'm sure you know exactly what we stand for and how you won't acknowledge that there is a group of folks working an actual program out of the book and how that differs from the current state of our common fellowship. But you will attack our brand of recovery as being much more insidious than our MOTR counterparts. This is where we disagree and always will.

    If it turns out that our hardlined big book thumping ways is more successful than what's being practiced in the pop-AA or MOTR AA world, then that's a threat to your agenda... that A.A. is a failure no matter what and the doors of all A.A. meetings need to close down and the clients need to be sent home... or to their respective counselors, therapists, doctors, psychiatrists, pharmacists, etc. and to professionalize this whole industry called "Alcoholism".