Tuesday, February 23, 2010

What then, besides A.A.?

So... Cuda has it out with Speedy again... and Speedy offers us nothing. In fact, he gets sort of a scold from M.A., which leads me to believe that Speedy is MAs alter-ego.


"M A, on February 23, 2010 at 11:04 am Said:
For what it’s worth, I don’t care for Speedy’s insults. Those are no better than the insults thrown around here by AAs.

As for your question, Cuda, there are several alternatives. The first is simply just quitting. You believe AA helped you stay quit. That’s fine. Wade Boggs ate chicken before every game, but that didn’t help him hit any better. It was simply superstition, just like your AA participation. You really quit on your own. You owe it to yourself, even though it has been beat into your head that it is a result of some spiritual hocus pocus. People believe in faith healing all the time, so you aren’t alone. Look at any Benny Hinn or Oral Roberts dog and pony show. You could have replaced AA with a ouija board or touch therapy or Scientology, and you would have had the same result.

There are those who simply can’t quit as easily. The reason for this isn’t mystical, or because they are “real alcoholics”, but is physiological. Most alcoholics’ brains react differently to alcohol than non-alkies. It creates a euphoria for us because it increases our serotonin and endorphin levels, giving us a better feeling from a buzz. This is why we can’t stop at one or two. We instinctively want to keep up those endorphin levels. With time drinking, we condition our bodies to rely on the rush of endorphins from our daily drunk, so our body stops its natural serotonin production. Without booze, we feel weird, shitty, shaky, depressed. These are the withdrawal symptoms which, with time, get better and revert back to normal. It is as physiological as diabetes or heart disease.

Most people can stick through it long enough to get to normal, and some never really do revert back to normal serotonin and endorphin production. It depends on individual physiology. Either way, for those who need help either short or long term, there are options. One is the Sinclair method, which is a drug therapy that addresses these physiological problems which are not a result of character flaws and spiritual deficiencies or any other 19th century diagnosis. There are other similar options, none of which are perfect, but like any science gets better and more refined with time. It will NOT get better as fast as it could with AA and AAs fighting these things every step of the way, and convincing people that all they need is faith healing. or that they are replacing one drug with another.

There are also psychological reasons why people drink, and there are psychological consequences to alcohol abuse. Those people can be helped with real, professional psychotherapists. Psychologists and psychiatrists who are trained in human psychology, not a lay person like you or me, who have to rely on pop psychology, and are influenced by our own personal experiences, and tend to project our problems onto others.

There are other support groups aside from AA, and if someone feels like those will help in them in actualizing their quit, that is great. Even AA has that component right, if they could provide the group support without the head games and manipulation that goes along with it.

We haven’t written much about the alternatives, because this isn’t a recovery site. Our objective here is to tear AA a new asshole, and to help others who have had the same experiences that we have had.


OK... I will reply. So what you basically offer is "Just quit". Now we're back to the Nancy Reagan speech.

Just say no. I think that's just wonderful. It's fairly simple too. If you do what you say, raise your hands!

Now... what's the book say?

Dr's Opinion:

Men and women drink essentially because they like the effect produced by alcohol. The sensation is so elusive that, while they admit it is injurious, they cannot after a time differentiate the true from the false. To them, their alcoholic life seems the only normal one. They are restless, irritable and discontented, unless they can again experience the sense of ease and comfort which comes at once by taking a few drinks--drinks which they see others taking with impunity. After they have succumbed to the desire again, as so many do, and the phenomenon of craving develops, they pass through the well-known stages of a spree, emerging remorseful, with a firm resolution not to drink again. This is repeated over and over, and unless this person can experience an entire psychic change there is very little hope of his recovery.

On the other hand--and strange as this may seem to those who do not understand--once a psychic change has occurred, the very same person who seemed doomed, who had so many problems he despaired of ever solving them, suddenly finds himself easily able to control his desire for alcohol, the only effort necessary being that required to follow a few simple rules.

Men have cried out to me in sincere and despairing appeal: "Doctor, I cannot go on like this! I have everything to live for! I must stop, but I cannot! You must help me!"

Faced with this problem, if a doctor is honest with himself, he must sometimes feel his own inadequacy. Although he gives all that is in him, it often is not enough.

One feels that something more than human power is needed to produce the essential psychic change.

Though the aggregate of recoveries resulting from psychiatric effort is considerable, we physicians must admit we have made little impression upon the problem as a whole. Many types do not respond to the ordinary psychological approach.

M.A.s opinion:

Just say no. Frothy emotional appeal.

See the difference?

Dr. Jack will get you high tonight...


  1. Yes, frothy emotional appeal. Good call.

    You know the really funny thing about MA's post is that he states everything in your BB quote but credits it to psychology and physiology.
    (which is true because MD's and Psychologists helped write the BB)

    When he uses the examples they're 'science'. When the BB uses them they're 'Hocus Pocus'.

    The anti-AA's can't even add anything to the debate. They agree with AA and don't even know it because they're so predjudiced against it.

    And to suggest that AA is somehow stopping medical progress !!! WTF !!

    And laypeople can't help with the psychology of addiction ? We need trained psychologists....why ? Because it's fucking rocket science?

    In one breath he says 'just quit' and in the next he says 'only a highly trained professional can help'.

    What a goof ball. I'm glad he quit AA though, at least I'll never have to sit and listen to him share. What a wasted hour that would be.

  2. Kind of a bummer. I haven't heard from Speedy since I called on him to answer a question.
    I looked high and low and still no Speedy to be found.
    I forgot to see if he was in "The Dunce Room"
    Maybe I better go check.

  3. I'm still going on the theory that MA and speedy are the same person. Or MA is speedy's dad and they fight over the same computer.

  4. You guys don't get it.

    MA and Speedy are......you know....'together'.

    ROFLMAO !!!!

    And now Karl caused a spat. Shame on you Karl.

    How much do you figure FTG weighs in at ?

  5. IDK but I wouldn't want to try taking a Snickers away from her.

  6. Here's another MA special :

    "Likewise, your AA group follows a literal interpretation of the ‘Big Book’, which is nuts because it was written by a bunch of regular, fallible people with no expertise in addiction or psychology, many of whom were at the least borderline religious zealots. This stuff isn’t written by God or experts, but by regular people attributing their recoveries to faith healing. Citing what it says as infallible scripture is just, plain, nuts."

    Now correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there a little piece in the forward called "The Doctor's Opinion" ?
    Haven't many 'experts' validated what is in the book ?

    Wasn't Dr Towns so impressed with the book that he offered Bill a job as a therapist in his very own hospital ?

    Honestly, where does MA get his bullshit from ? He doesn't seem clever enough to think it up on his own.

    What's the word I'm looking for ?

    Oh yeah, fucktard.

  7. Seems I'm hearing MA talking out both sides of his mouth.
    ST is dedicated to cleaning up AA of its reptiles, pedophiles, rapists, power hungry sponsors, convicts, and the likes.
    More or less, an "Alano Club"
    Then you explain "Real AA" to the masses and he steps in to tell the weak coffee guy that he should be able to do whatever he wants.
    Those are the very ones he bashes when they bring up some cooked up failure rate.
    They're in AA trying to hug and slogan each other sober and it's not working. It's not AA and it's not working.
    Now for some reason they have MAs blessing.
    I happen to know that there is none of the above mentioned derelicts in my groups and we don't relapse.
    Mainly because we believe in AA as the book states AA is supposed to be and we don't let just any swingin dick in the door because their Mom or Parole Officer made them go.

  8. Yeah, I know Karl, I know.

    He doesn't really have a point other than AA=bad.

    Childish at best, deadly at worst.

    There are plenty of 'professionals' who endorse AA and a small percentage who knock it.

    So, if I were MA I'd shut my pie hole when the topic of professional opinion and AA came up.

    Then again, if I were MA I'd probably mutilate myself and then set myself on fire.
    It seems like more fun then sitting in that brain for any period of time.

  9. I was wondering what kind of whacko would go out of their way and make it their career... not avocation, but vocation... to bash A.A. and what kind of minions would follow and slobber all over their every word. It's obvious that they could care less about the suffering alcoholic, so why would they offer a better solution?

    The only thing I can think is that they're tied to the "alcoholism" industry in some way.

    Now... MA recently described himself to me as a naked whacko sitting behind his computer waiting for the Mother-Ship to take him away. It's what he said... on here somewhere.

    So there ya go.

  10. I think he attracts the kind of people who don't want to get dirty in the real world. They hang out in cyber space and start to think that because they never leave the house, they're smarter than everyone else who does.

    They constantly talk in circles and use insults and ad hominems but they'll never engage in an actual debate. It's kind of funny.

    If you won't state your position, it likely means you don't have one.

    As I said, they sum total of the message over there is AA=bad.

    How fucking crazy is that ? And he has about half a dozen regulars lurking there just waiting to pounce on some AA.

    Hey, whatever. I get some amusement out of it but it's a guilty pleasure. Like stealing a quarter from one of the kids on the small bus.

  11. I liken it to going to the zoo and making faces at the monkeys. Maybe yelling moo out the window when you see a cow standing there.
    No good reason for it. The monkeys know you're not a monkey, the cow knows you're not a cow. Yet we always try to convinve them of something they'll never believe.