K from Stinkin' Thinkin' plays troll on the Sober Recovery forum

Here's how someone like K pulls the heartstrings of some of the sincere A.A. folk over at SR on the 12 Step Subforum and a number of good posters give him advice galore and he/she/it leads them down a path of... tomfuckery;

#1)


k


Do all alcoholics suffer depression?
---------------------------


I hear people in AA meetings say they drank when they were happy, I also hear more so with females that they drank to try and ease depression.


A few questions first how can somebody who doesn't suffer depression sponsor somebody who does, they drank for totally different reasons.


If you drink to ease depression do you think that means you are not what you might call a real alcoholic.


The AA promises describe somebody who is being cured of depression, yet not all alcoholics are depressives, apart from the depression caused by alcohol itself. In fact from studies I have read most male alcoholics have no more incidence of depression than the general population.


Also the 12 steps are clearly about morality, does mean being a depressed means you are immoral? __________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

____________________________________________________
#2
T

I actually don't understand what you mean. I think I remember you trying to see a connection between shyness and immorality once too. I didn't understand that either. Are you dealing with the notion that you are or were a bad person?
_____________________________________________

#3
kj

A few questions first how can somebody who doesn't suffer depression sponsor somebody who does, they drank for totally different reasons.

Because the reasons I drank have no bearing on why I am an alcoholic. And those reasons have no bearing on AA's solution for alcoholism.

The Doctor's Opinion talks about classifying the types of alcoholics. The one in denial, the happy drunk, the depressive, etc. It's a trap in the book. The conclusion is IT JUST DOESN"T MATTER. If you have this particular reaction to booze, you are one of us. And the same solution that works for me will work for you.

You have a point, K. If I think I drank for 'reasons', maybe I'm not alcoholic. Take care of those reasons and the drinking problem will be solved.

But that's not me. The difference is plainly spelled out in the first 8+23 pages of the book.

If you've been around AA for a while, and don't understand this, I suggest getting with a knowledgeable sponsor and getting a real First Step experience for yourself. It's more work than trying to define differences between me and the alkie that has been there before, but it's the pathway to freedom.

Identifying differences allows my ego the illusion of control.
_________________________________________

#4

kj

The 12 Steps are not about morality. I've seen hundreds of alcoholics fail to stay sober because they falsely believed that if they just 'got good' or tried to live a moral life, they wouldn't drink. That kind of thinking kills people.

'If a mere code of morals or a better philosophy of life were sufficient to overcome alcoholism, many of us would have recovered long ago....We could try with all our might, but the needed power wasn't there.'

This is exactly the open-mindedness that is required. You have this idea or belief about the steps and about alcoholism that is blocking you from the experience. Set aside that pre-conceived notion about what alcoholism, the Steps, and a higher power is, and just have the experience that comes about by taking a few simple actions.

___________________________________________________________

#5

P

Bill W, the cofounder of AA, suffered from severe bouts of depression for nearly his entire adult life--even after he got sober.

Clinical depression is a mental illness. It's a chemical imbalance in the brain that involves neurotransmitters.

Alcoholism is an illness that involves an adverse reaction when alcohol is put into the body and a mental component, similar to amnesia or delusion, that the person will not have this adverse reaction when alcohol is put into the body.

Alcohol is also a depressant. It affects the central nervous system. It can cause depression in those who do not have a neurotransmitter imbalance. Typically their depression fades when they cease drinking. The clinically depressed person will continue to suffer from depression, even after they cease drinking, because the alcohol is not a component. Their brain chemistry is the cause of their depression.

Some alcoholics may believe they are drinking to relieve their depression, but a REAL alcoholic drinks because they are alcoholic, not because they are depressed. They'd be drinking with or without the chemical imbalance. The drinking may make their depression worse, though, as alcohol is a depressant.

In other words, they are separate illnesses.
__________________________________________

#6
PC

Why don't you just quit going to AA meetings K??
_______________________________________________

#7
K

PC says, "Why don't you just quit going to AA meetings Kurt?? "
Have done, although went back recently out of desperation. had people who know nothing about me implying things about me.


Infact during my time away from AA i had my best period of sobriety. That flies in the face of if you stop going to AA meetings you'll drink that some AAers claim.


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.
__________________________________

#8

K


AA makes me feel guilty M and guilt equals depression which makes it harder for me to resist drink.


In the AA meetings i attended i feel there is a defeatist attitude to life, ambitions are frowned upon.


I believe hope just as much the realisation of the hope is good for psycholgical well being


I don't believe ambitions are bad especially when I am only in my early thirties! when you think of yourself as powerless over life I think it is unhealthy.


being powerless over life equals depression which means its harder to resist drink.


There is another reason why I didn't drink in that period but that's personal.


I once said to my doctor that the only way i can quit drink is if my life gets better or it gets worse.


Maybe AA is right and that i want too much out of life I really really hope not


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference
______________________________
#9

kj

K says, “AA makes me feel guilty mark and guilt equals depression which makes it harder for me to resist drink.”

K, in reading your last couple of posts, an idea comes to me.

I don't know your situation, so I'm out on a limb and shooting in the dark. There is nothing about the AA program I know that involves resisting a drink. Nothing.

A set of actions that lead me to a spiritual awakening that removes my problem with alcohol and takes me to a life better than I've ever known. That's the AA program I know.

Some of the things you say you hear at meetings, some of the attitudes expressed there, are not the AA program of recovery.

Far too common is a group of people sitting around not drinking and talking about their problems and calling it AA. I agree with you. There is a vast feeling of despair and hopelessness in those rooms, interrupted occasionally by a cynical laugh.

It's like my old view of organized religions. I would find some members of whatever group who were really **** poor examples of that group and use them as a reason to discount the group (or religion, in this demonstration).

Same with AA. I can find some really **** poor, un-spiritually fit people who call themselves members of AA, who are in no way living the program of AA, and decide that AA sucks. I can do that even today. It feels good, and my ego thrives on it.

But that doesn't work for me. It doesn't keep me happy, and it most likely won't keep me sober. Instead, I sought out those who carried the message of AA. Those who could show me the directions for having a spiritual experience of my own. Truthfully, they weren't necessarily easy to find. But they are there. They have a Big Book and they actually follow the principles outlined in that book.

______________

#10
B

K says, “Also the 12 steps are clearly about morality, does mean being a depressed means you are immoral?”

First of all - the steps are about spirituality, not morality (church people might not see the difference).

Also, I may not know much about clinically depression, but I do know a lot about about despair. When I tried to quit drinking on my own, despair was was akin to going into a tail-spin for me. I could never pull out of it on my own. Sometimes it lasted for days and I was beginning to suspect it might be some form of clinical depression. However, because I lacked health insurance, I put off seeking professional help.

Then I got a job as an over-the-road truck driver and my despair became worse than ever. Fortunately, I was working steps 10,11 & 12 daily by then and found that if I focused on them 24 by 7, it relieved all of my emotional problems, not just my obsession to drink.

___________________________________________

Now... K goes into an all-out bitchfest over A.A. in the 12 Step subforum seemingly just to get a rise out of other posters there;

K says;
Maybe show a bit of respect and stop demeaning people who don't conform to your religion.








12 steps and big book was harmful to me.


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference

K, you wouldn't know respect if you found yourself down at the bus station passing out free blowjobs in the men's restroom.


Who are you to demand respect?


Now, the object of K's bitchfest;

NS says,
One last thing K. I have no issue with SMART or other recovery options (AA is not the only game in town and I am happy for anyone who beats alcoholism), they are not what I want personally, so I don't go to those threads and talk about AA because I do respect them. May I ask why you are bringing those here? They are not on trial on this thread, no one is bashing them.

Then, after that fair and gracious post, K comes back with this;
 

K says,
A newcommer is a newcommer (ie you don't know anything about them) don't try to be there psychologist by forcing what you think is best for them








Take what you need and leave the rest. If anybody grandiose claims about AAs success, then we have to look at statistical evidense. Of which there is none.






AAs success as never been tested in a court of law. If you look at the program its clearly a program that wants to make immoral people moral so its hardly surprising people are court mandated.


Infact I think it serves better at dealing with criminals than alcoholics.


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

K says,

"People like you You really don't listen do you. could be responsible for people who shouldn't be in AA comitting suicide. How your conscious is clean is beyond me.







I recently had a friend who recently committed suicide. He was schizophrenic which in turn lead to depression, he self medicated with alcohol. Not many people new of his schizophrenia.


His problem was schizophrenia not his inflated ego. He didn't need to go around apologising to people or praying to god.






AAs answer isd you would have let him sit in a meeting, convince him that if he doesn't do the AA way then he'll drink and die. Come on lets have some rigorous honesty.






Nobody ever comes out of their first meeting with a balanced real view of how to deal with their alcoholism.


ie lots treatment of option available


I must seek medical treatment otherwise the steps won't work as dealing with my mental illness is paramount to acheiving long term good sobriety






You are not qualified to make judgements about why people go back drinking."

More wasted grace headed K's way;

This is a 12 Step support forum so, of course, it is the 12 steps that we share as our solution but we are only a small fraction of the whole of the Sober Recovery community.




Alcoholism and illnesses which can lead to alcoholism can be devastating to those suffering and those around them. I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend.

Now an appeal to ask K, the Piece of Shit... remember that one K?  I do... K, the POS, to leave the thread and go back to his/her/it's troll hole;

OK K, this is absolutely foolish. There have been no trials, no tests. Jellinek is often mis-quoted by people here trying to dis-prove AA. AA has nothing to prove. I have been sober for 20 years because of AA, so my experience is that it works quite well. I was illiterate when I got here, but now I am earning an MBA. I was unemployable when I got here yet have had the same job for almost 16 years. I am not discounting your experience, but when you say AA does not help people stop drinking you are being foolish. This thread has nothing to do with that at all. Why do you wish to hijack it under the guise of helping people?




C'mon K, please!

Now, K really starts to get exposed, just like Stinkin' Thinkin', Mike blame denial whateverthefuck, Orange, etc...;

Quote by K:

AA has had its day. It cannot survive on scale it is now that internet has exposed the truth of its success rate.



Again K, you are showing your foolishness here.



There are about 1 million A.A. members in the U.S., according to the official A.A. survey. There is not even an accurate account of how many people came to meetings, and as anyone who has a clue, meeting attendance does not mean one has tried AA, that only means you sat your butt in a chair for an hour.



As far as the claim on the Orange Papers that AA has a less than 2% success rate. That would mean that 99 million raving alcoholics would have had to have come to A.A. meetings and failed, to balance out that paltry 1 million who got sober.



The A.A. Triennial Membership Surveys for 1977 through 1989 show that, of those people who are in their first month of attending A.A. meetings, 26% will still be attending A.A. meetings at the end of that year. That means that we would have to run 4 million people roughly through a few A.A. meetings in order to come out with 1 million people who stay in A.A. and get a bit of sobriety. With 10 million people in the U.S. classified as alcohol dependent, that means that we would have to conclude that nowadays about 40% of the alcoholics in the U.S. end up with a little bit of contact with A.A. at one time or another during their lives. And in fact, as a ball park estimate, this 40% figure matches up at least reasonably well with some very well done National Institute of Health studies.



Now having said all that, I could care less about statistics.



You really ought to stick to the secular recovery threads K, you are here to cause trouble and I will not turn a blind eye to your BS. I do not attack the way you get sober, why do you insist on attacking mine? And please stop lying that you are trying to help people. You are here to stir the pot

... and he/she/it just goes on and on and on...

The article you quote is pure propoganda I'm graduate of mathematics I understand statistics more than the person who wrote this article. It would be laughed it by clinical scientists.



AA has never ever been prooved to cure people of alcoholism, ever. many parameters have been used to analyze for success but AA has had zero affect.


NHS Evidence - Mental health - Alcoholics Anonymous and other 12-step programmes for alcohol dependence






Anybody ever heard of the placebo affect. Clearly none of you on here understand it.






I'll quote what my father said "AA is an evil organisation keep away from it".






I'm sorry I think the doctor is wrong its well known there are many causes of alcoholism such as in my case enough exposure to alcohol to create tolerance and withdrawall and mental illness.


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

Now some more..

K says,

Please, please respond to this







I have seen a person attempt suicide because of depression. I have heard them make their pre suicide attempt speech, using all the self loathing terms thats used in the big book to describe what all alcoholics are suposed to be like.






Recognised treatment for depression is to write whats good about you.






The big book is full hatred of alcoholics and hence hatred for many mentally ill people.






An alcoholic was abused as a kid homeless and mentally ill i need a drink


AAs (more specifically the big book) response stop being self centred and selfish, stop trying to be the actor and controlling your life. confess your sins you are spiritually unfit.






Its vile and degrading


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

Respond to this?  Ummm... WAA! Now, here's how a proA.A.er treats a baby milk fed boy;

You've definitely convinced me. I'm quitting AA. Who is with me? B? S?

More classic K;

We can probably assume from what hes said then that as there is no overall difference in various treatments then AA is must be wiorse than other treatments for people with mental illness, I tend to agree with that

...

Making people there mental illness down to sin and morality in the 21st century is disgusting

Hello K.  This is the English Language speaking.  Have we met before?

Originally Posted by k


The article you quote is pure propoganda I'm graduate of mathematics I understand statistics more than the person who wrote this article. It would be laughed it by clinical scientists.


AA has never ever been prooved to cure people of alcoholism, ever. many parameters have been used to analyze for success but AA has had zero affect.


 Originally Posted by k



The article you quote is pure propoganda I'm graduate of mathematics I understand statistics more than the person who wrote this article. It would be laughed it by clinical scientists.


AA has never ever been prooved to cure people of alcoholism, ever. many parameters have been used to analyze for success but AA has had zero affect.



Originally Posted by k



The article you quote is pure propoganda I'm graduate of mathematics I understand statistics more than the person who wrote this article. It would be laughed it by clinical scientists.


AA has never ever been prooved to cure people of alcoholism, ever. many parameters have been used to analyze for success but AA has had zero affect.

Now... maybe I need to back off of K.  Maybe I'm being harsh.

Oh, maybe not;

another KJ says,

"Thanks for coming on the 12 STEP FORUM and bashing our program.




I hope you find some peace in your life. Maybe you've even turned a few people off recovery in general with your confusingly sharp comments."

K

I just hope that I have encoraged people to think twice with who they are dealing with when a newcommer comes through the door.



Mentally ill peoples priority in order to combat their alcoholism is deal with the mental health issues. Firstly by getting off the booze possibly with a detox.


The big book is just an opinion


__________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

K;

AA is not for me and its not for everybody



I remember though that overpassion is what turned anakin intom darth vader. I must also remember this too. LOL!
 _________________


God, grant me the serenity


to accept the things I cannot change;


the courage to change the things I can;


and the wisdom to know the difference.

May the Force be with you K.  Shozbot, Nanu Fucking Nanu.
... and yet another Pro-A.A.ers retort to K's attempted anti/XAer slam;

You've definitely convinced me. I'm quitting AA. Who is with me? B? NS?






I have tried quitting AA dozens of times. The problem is, even though it is fallible. It is still the best recovery I have found so far.



SMART and Rational Recovery are little more than psychological tricks&tips that only help those who never drank to the point of developing all 3 aspects of full-blown alcoholism;



A allergy of the body

An obsession of the mind

A spiritual malady

Another proAAer comments on K's bullshit;

Originally Posted by k

Anybody ever heard of the placebo affect. Clearly none of you on here understand it.

It's the placebo effect, not affect, and funny you should trot that out in this discussion as there is tremendous argument in the medical community over it's effectiveness.

__________________

All quotes are from the Alcoholics Anonymous.1st Edition

Ha Ha K!  Bitchslap!

Originally Posted by k


The big book is just an opinion

...and YET another classy proA.A.er;

So is that ^^^

_______________________________________

254. kurtrambis (aka k) says



K, so you got beat up in AA?


Also whats a horn dog?

"I thought everybody drank like that"

Oh rly?  I didn't.  I was quite sure that not too many drank like me.  Waking up to a wall of spewed pizza and booze on the wall by that bed in an El Segundo Hotel  and hair matted in puke and a pounding head was not my goal.  My actual goal was "have some fun". 

I evidently over-shot fun and I know that the over-indulgence of booze had some fucking thing to do with it.

People who say "I thought everybody drank like me" or "I came to A.A. because I thought you folks would teach me how to drink" confuses me.

I know/knew one way to drink and that was always my way.  I never "crossed" any imaginary line.  I blasted over it way long ago... when I was 10 years old, in fact.  Bill W didn't cross that line until sometime after he turned  17 or 18 because he didn't drink until then.  It was different in my family.

I was hell-bent on stupid actions and a life of horror due to those actions despite my talents and the support and love from my family and friends... although a part of me didn't think so.  I thought I could handle it.  Although I knew I was different, I thought I was cool... and I'll show you this time!

It makes no logical sense.  That's the truth of it.  But the creation of science or use of logic... of rational thought... has nothing to do with it... for me.

I'm an alcoholic.

Happy Thanksgiving and Merry Christmas.

This place is gettin' high class. Nice job, Dog.

Know how to piss off an Anti/XAer?

Just tell em' that only real alkies can recover from alcoholism.

Tell them that only non-alkies can "Just don't drink, no matter what!"

Tell them that real alkies "Just drink, no matter what!"

Tell them that A.A. makes non-alkies worse/crazier.  Actually, that also pisses off the hard drinkers and lonely scragglers socialized in A.A. who make the fellowship their life even though they have no business being there.

Tell the 12 x 12 book thumpers that there's a difference between "recovering control", which no alcoholic ever does, and being RECOVERED from alcoholism, which every alcoholic who knows their condition, does steps, and comes out the other side... does.

Then tell them this... The A.A. program, as outlined in the A.A. book's program of action, is sufficient for recovery from alcoholism for the "real" alcoholic.  Oh, actually, this must be true, because it reconciles with my experience.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING!

Stinkin' Thinkin' lampooning Soberrecovery again

MA says,

Fun With Delusion


There is a thread in the works from the fun bunch over the Sober Recovery forum titled, “Why do some alcoholics continue to suffer?” It’s so far out, over-the-top, ’round the bend crazy; and the first two posts are so entertaining, I decided to post a link to it now, so you folks could enjoy the show. Get your popcorn…

Get your own popcorn, MA, and shove it.


This post may be entertaining, but not the first two. You pick on Boleo because he makes sense in a "A.A. works as a spiritual solution" sort of way. You have to dog Boleo because he answers your anti/XAer criticism of God and the "God of A.A."


You ask why God saves some drunks, but lets folks starve and suffer in Haiti? Because, that's fucking why.


It's ananda you should be eating your popcorn on;

The question in the big book is "god could and would if he were sought" or i guess it's a statement.


I question this....and I find it arragant of those who have recovered to assume those who have not simply didn't seek hard enough....if it works for you great...It is sorta like saying you recovered from cancer cause you believed and god cured you....it indicates those who don't recover...they just didn't believe good enough or hard enough.


If that's what you believe fine....but for myself, I cannot go there, never have gone there and never will....2 months sober or 7 years sober...or one day....I absolutely object to blaming the diseased person for their inability to get well. It may make some feel safer, but it's a total cop out to the very spirituality expressed in the 12 steps to say it was the human power, belief, willingness or honesty that kept them from sobriety....


Is your quality of willingness, open mindedness and honesty soooo darn high you can really look down (sure with "compassion") upon your fellow man?


I believe in AA and the 12 steps...but sometimes...I believe it gets distorted.
__________________
Copyright © 2010 - 2010 Ananda

She "copyrights" herself. How cute. Are you fucking sober yet, ananda? It's about fucking time, if you are. A moderator/greeter/ass-kisser with 11,562 posts at SR should have some kind of wisdom... should, that is.


You, ananda, fit the Stinkin' Thinkin' mold. In fact, you just might be the SR/ST double-agent that's been stirring things up.


What's my experience on the thing? I haven't had cancer, so I guess I'll cross that fucking bridge when/if I get there. I personally, think I'm too schizo to get the fucking thing anyway.  When I came back to A.A. on this last go around, I was told that there are many "will-nots" and not so many "can-nots".  The folks in the group told me that booze did something to/for me.  If I don't want to get and stay sober, I definitely won't.  This is a fact.  Suffering isn't always bad, but it is fucking optional.  That's right.  You heard it here first.  Write that down now, MA.  I know you fucking need me.  I feed you.  Now here's some more... Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional.  I won't suffer fools.  Not anymore.


Maybe hairlips and retards ARE to blame. Maybe there's a Karmic wheel and there is reincarnation and if you're a piece of worthless shit A.A./religious mocker, you come back as a dirty mangy mutt and you get assigned to a mean abusive alcoholic with a small backyard and a picket fence.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Tiburron88 is back at SR as anaconda22

Tell me this isn't tib;

Doubting AA'ers Crediability Issue?

---

I have been thinking about going back to an AA meeting but have a HUGE problem. I simply don't believe many AA folks who claim long sobriety periods. I also have trouble identifying with others in the room. For example, one guy use to always complain about his stressful job and the car traffic getting to the meeting. I almost feel as if you still have a job and a car you aren't even a real alcoholic. I have been asked to leave a meeting for smelling like booze/drunk and accused of being aggressive? I also find the spirituality side of AA as being fake. If I want spirituality I will go to the experts at my local church. Anyways, should I try this Christian church program or give AA/NA another try?

... and

Okay thanks Dee. I will perhaps try both. First by joining the church program and going back to a AA meeting. I think I will not comment for a while though because I just want to be "in the shadows" until I get more sobriety time and my mind clears from my latest ugly bender.

... and

The thing I chuckle about is people who have to insist that they are alcoholics. If you don't have the real "war stories" and stuff what the heck are you doing at an AA meeting? I wish I went to meetings back in the 1940 or 1950 at least I could relate better. I don't count peoples sobriety time that aren't even real alcoholics to begin with.

... and

I agree Daytrader but the fact is I just feel like I fit in. Why bother dragging yourself to an AA meeting if a person still has a good job??? I mean instead of offering me a ride to the meeting why can't one these AA'ers get me some work? I read in the Big Book that folks back then even offered a place to stay a while to get back on ones feet? No one has ever offered me that. If I have to go to these AA meetings I feel like they owe me something ya know?

... and

Well metitade while i never "groped" anyone at a meeting I am a "shifty" character. I often smell like booze when I use to stagger into an AA meeting in downtown Chicago in the afternoon. I was used to seeing the upper class and would bum a free lunch. That's the thing about AA every one is "shifty".

... and

... Tib didn't even make it to the 2nd or 3rd pages of his own thread before it closed in a firey crash.  Well... he hurled some insults, but they got removed before we could see them.

Pass the popcorn.

Good goin', anaconda22.  Good to see you back.

If I ran a well-attended Alcohol Recovery forum...

... I would impose a pre-requirement.

• Option A: I am recovered in A.A. and am here to help and share ESH.  Proceed to 12 Step Subforum
• Option B: I am a recovered alcoholic and am NOT in A.A. or 12 Step.  Proceed to Alcoholism/Addict general Subforum, but stay the fuck away from the 12 Step forum, and that includes you anti/secular/XAer Moderators too.
• Option C: I'm drunk again and want to give A.A. another shot.  Proceed to 12 Step Subforum and tell them you drank, but no commenting, starting threads, or further commenting on other posts until you've completed steps 4 through 9 with a group or a sponsor.  But in the meantime, read away if you'd like, but you should spend more time working steps than in here or on the internet in general.  Btw, how's that prayer and meditation coming?
• Option D: I'm drunk again and don't use A.A.  Proceed to the Alcoholism general forum and fire away.  We'd like to invite you over to the Stinkin' Thinkin' website and a host of youtube channels as well.  Welcome back!
• Option E:  I'm drunk again and want to harrass the 12 Step forum and reek of self pity and frothy emotional appeal.  Welcome back, GP.  Give them 12 Steppers hell.

Jim, you made Quote of the Week at Stinkin' Thinkin' again!

By MA – November 8, 2010
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote of the Day

“The deal with AA is that we don’t give a conception of God. Whatever conception you have is good enough to start. It is vital though, that one be convinced that they are alcoholic. Then we move on to the God thing.”




Jim, an AA and two-hatter, pulling the AA bait and switch routine on a “prospect.”




Posted in Quotes.

Tagged with AA, aa meetings, alcoholics anonymous, assholes, Bait and Switch, funny stories, jimhere, las vegas meetings, mcgowdog, recovery, slogan, sober recovery, soberrecovery.
________________________________________________________
humanspirit says Stepper mendacity and deceitfulness revealed.  What about all the people whose “conception of God” is that there is no such thing as God?


And even for those who do believe in God – how is the 12-step program supposed to help them stop drinking?


November 8, 2010, 3:43 pm true believer says It does not matter to the AA weather or not I AM an alcoholic, it only matters that I am convinced that I am. Then the AA can CONVINCE me that turning my will and life over to the program will provide solutions and serenity. Classic AA dung-vine mind control cult bull crap!


November 8, 2010, 3:52 pm true believer says Whoops… WHETHER


November 8, 2010, 3:53 pm SoberPJ says OK, so I need a god to relieve me of the desire to drink. I have seen where a real alcoholic had a desire to drink and I gave him a sandwich instead and his desire to drink went away for a while. I’m confused. Am I god, or is the sandwich god?

McGowdog says, "No, Sober PJ.  You're a fucking idiot and a fucking liar.  Remember?"

November 8, 2010, 4:20 pm humanspirit says @SoberPJ Think it’s probably you that’s god rather than the sandwich. In which case it’s your damn fault that the person you mention is an alcoholic in the first place.

November 8, 2010, 4:33 pm tintop says SR eh? The very model of model major woo

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Pueblo Sucks thread on Topix

Some guy posted this on a "Pueblo Sucks" thread on Topix.  This is my proud home town now... so... but I laughed my balls off on this one;

Some Guy on Topix called DaHonkeyYouHate2Love:

Pueblo is a poor rat trap. I was attracted to it becuase it seemed non-yuppie and warmer than a frozen mountain town that I had been living in. What's good about Pueblo? Well besides last year's visit from the iceman, Pueblo is fairly warm for Colorado. I have come to realize though that Pueblo is a shithole. People yell at you from out their cars on occasion for no reason (same thing happened in New Mexico, although there they threw things...actually someone threw a rolled up newspaper at me while on my bike). If you confront them (like when a red light prevents them from avoiding you) and, they try to hide like the little ignorant babies they are.

I have come to the conclusion that Pueblo is retarded. It has a retarded music scene, a retarded business sense, a retarded mental hospital, and most people seem completely oblivious and retarded. All the young people leave here when they hit 22 (unless they come to the retarded CSU college or technical schools). The reason for all this retardation? I think it's cultural. The hispanic population brings the Mexican culture which is "siesta siesta" and "manana, manana".

Nobody wants to do anything today - just sit on their ass. They'll take care of it tomorrow ...always tomorrow. I suppose this is a great town if you're a chronic alcoholic or drug addict...but even those people never look happy. Everyone seems depressed and angry..either that or just "out of it". And there's not much of a sense of humor here either. I mean if you're that poor and miserable at least learn to laugh at your situation to lighten things up!

I thought people here would at least be humble becuase they were poor. But boy was I wrong! When I went to the soup kitchen the homeless people act with an air of entitlement that both perplexes and disgusts me. And God forbid you try to volunteer at a soup kitchen! They act "clicky" and look at you funny and say "sorry we don't need any help". No, I'M SORRY ,(for coming here)- hey dumbass you're not doing me a favor by me volunteering! And another thing: there are not a lot of services for poor people here (esp.for the amount of poor people here: poorest county in CO), and the ones that exist really don't help people . It's almost like they exist only for their own glory or something - wow we are an organization that "helps" people, look at us, Wow. There was a kid with no legs, no home, no real family who was kicked out of the shelter and we called every organisation and social service to try to find him a place to stay ~ nada, nothing. It was a pathetic statement on this "town".

 Then the next guy had this to say:

The next guy:

having been all over the world and moving here from midwest (Iowa) I can truly say this "area" has one of the nicest and friendly populations I have ever encountered. My perception is that this is in large part due to the diverse ethnic population and diverse in that there are so many people here who came from somewhere else. Now with that said, Pueblo itself does suffer from a low average income per person. Poverty never leads to good social aspects. I think it is naive to ignore the economic influence on the Pueblo society and then go on to place lame on ethnic issues. Finally Pueblo is the only place I have ever been where you can see a teenage "thug" covered in tattoos, dressed like a gangster, and yet be ever so quick to offer a "please" "sir" or "excuse me, I'm sorry".

Thank you DeConstructor!

I actually like that piece very much. It's a much better depiction of how a true intervention should go.


DeConstructor says, "Quite possible the very best protrayal of an intervention ever. In the end you can feel the serenity, it almost feels like McGowLord, Tony C, and Dick (head AA promoter) are personally conveying their serenity.
In fact, Paulie Walnuts reminds me alot of McGowLord"