Friday, December 10, 2010

A proAAer, AArdvark sheds a positive light on A.A. in an antiAA blog called Stinkin' Thinkin'

AArdvark says...There were some good times and there are some good perspectives in the rooms at times, and I was around people and sharing in their lives and that was positive. I liked the story from one guy about when he is on his deathbed and looks back to take stock of his life, he’d say, “what the hell was all that ?!” I can relate.

I don’t regret my time at AA. spent about 4 years before i flew the coop. still go back once in awhile. what i do wish i had done differently (can i call them “regrets”) is that i would have spoken up more but I didn’t have the necessary self confidence. I heard a lot of great things at meetings, real pearls of wisdom. And there were people who i really liked and respected and still do. One of the better kept secrets is that there are a large number of people who have gone to AA, got back on their feet, and moved on. Just decent people who keep their opinions to themselves and who were slow with a harsh word. People who had a lot of useful things to say and who I admired more for what they didn’t say. I remember enjoying a few leads that were from the heart and not performances. Some of the AA doctrine can be very helpful if interpreted correctly.

I really don’t think anything is achieved by bashing AA. Don’t get me wrong, I probably more than most know the weaknesses of AA. But I know too many people who went to AA religiously just like I did at the beginning only to stop after a few years. Good people. I would be a fool to condemn them. I am one of them.

So much of the criticism I think is more a manifestation of a poor self image. I know this is going to sting but I think it’s true. If you don’t like AA, don’t go. But I think you can do more to help the “cause” by going. Speak your mind. If people confront you or challenge you, stand your ground. There’s a good chance that there will be others who think like you do. Let them know what you think. Let them see that you can beat your addiction without sacrificing your will.

AA in many ways gave me an avenue to practice facing the real world. I can remember challenging dogma at meetings and being confronted back. Sometimes I wanted to crawl under my chair rather than have to face a conflict which is still a challenge for me. I also remember people coming to me after a meeting and telling me that they liked what I said. Not everyone who goes to AA is a moron. Many are good, honorable people who find AA as a nice place to socialize and get a sense of community. In fact there’s a good chance that they are some of the best people around. Beating the booze is no small feat. There’s a good chance that if you reject AA early in your recovery that you may not have anywhere to go. I live in an urban area and had a pretty wide range of meetings to choose from. I hope that’s true in your case.
Now, some comments on this fair and balanced post...

Gunthar2000 says Ahhh! It’s the old, “AA members can run around telling everyone that AA is a miracle, but anyone who speaks out about bad experiences in AA is just a basher,” routine.

I will not allow anyone to shame and manipulate me into shutting down.

People need to know about the abuse that goes on in AA.

AA fucks up people’s lives, and I happen to care about people… It has nothing to do with poor self-image, and I find it absolutely repulsive that you could suggest such a thing.

Please let me know if any positions open up on the throne of judgment… When I get hired, we can sit up there together and fix all of the little people.
... then

AnnaZed says Ah AArdvark, what a sweet tender humble self-effacing and inspiring message of tolerance and love. It almost made me well up inside except that your oblivious hypocrisy, complete lack of self-awareness, spurious an inane advice combined with your plain stupid and insulting characterization of the other posters here made bile rise in my throat instead. Fuck off!
Fuck off?  Really, AnnaZed?  Just because you have that cunt between your legs doesn't keep the shit from your mouth, huh?  No longer do you bitches at ST get any special treatment for being lady-like.  You are a dirt squirrel.

Martha says Criticism of aa is a manifestation of poor self image? That is a crock. One of the worst things about AA is that they want you to take on a poor self-image. Ego deflation is one of their central methods of getting you to stop thinking and speak in trite platitudes and slogans. AA does much more harm than good. 5% success rate after a year? People who quit on their own have more success. You go in desperation to a meeting because you want to learn about how to stop drinking and the first step you have to work is to give up and say you are powerless? No thanks. Yes a few people got something out of it, but many many more were harmed.

If this be bashing make the most of it.
What good anti/XAer bashing site would be complete without a cult blast?

LUCY says Aarvark – Stick around and learn something. You may be out of the cult, but the cult isn’t out of you.
Harold says ...If we are ever to break the strangle hold that AA has on both the public’s mind and addiction treatment we need much more “AA bashing.” In fact as that song goes we’ve only just begun.

Gunthar2000 says …

Ahhh! It’s the old, “If you’re not getting sober in AA, you are all alone,” routine.

So, what you've learned about Stinkin' Thinkin', AArdvark, is that you have to hate and bash A.A. or you're not welcome and you're stupid.  Nice post, btw.  Notice how nobody there gave you an ounce of credit for your "experience", of which they have no business commenting on nor arguing in the first place? 

That's because you're a threat to them and their worthless lives.


  1. One more reason not to look at Stinkin' Thinkin'

  2. "I really don’t think anything is achieved by bashing AA".

    On the contrary it opened my eyes to any area where I may play a role in the abuse they say is going on. I see a lot of it too.

    It also causes me to understand that people that make blanket statements like this

    "AA fucks up people’s lives"

    are retards that haven't got a clue.

  3. I agree in both points Karl. Sometimes it takes our critics to wake us up.

    Still though, I see no reason for me to go lurking around over at ST and adding fodder for my inventory. I've tried my hand at being diplomatic over there and it truly drove home the meaning of "Cast not your pearls before swine nor give that which is holy to the dogs, lest they turn on you and trample you and eat you up."

  4. Jim pretty much summed it up. It is absolutely a waste of time and energy to post or even go over there, I have been away from ST and am the better for it. There is nothing over there I want, and nothing I can do to change their mind set. With all the love I can muster, Fuck Em

  5. Doesn't it go without saying that people who lurk on the internet and savagely attack others are suffering from poor self image ?

    And I know because I'm constantly blamed by anti-AA's of the very same character defects they possess.....lol !! Sure I have them too, but not to that extent and I'm not as blind to mine as they are to theirs.

    AA is evil, why ?
    Well if you're an actual alcoholic of the BB variety, then it's probably a threat to your drinking like Mrs Jones and your boss. If not, you might just be plain old vanilla crazy.

  6. Yes, it is true that the very things I hate in others I hate in myself. But as the BB says, my troubles are of my own making and they arise from within.

    Thank God MA, speedy, and the rest of the ST gang don't have to change for me to feel better about myself.

  7. Good to see all you guys in here.

    I was sick as a dog on my evening shift last night and barely made it through. Having stomach cramps and mild neasea is not a good thing at this plant...running up and down stairs in this cold.

    Feel better tonight and don't have to go to the bathroom every 20 minutes.

    I've lost 7 lbs since coming to work for the city.

    Good old work has been good to me. I don't miss the shame and the fear. God has been with me and I am contributing again.

  8. Congratulations to those who took a moment to recognize the filth and anger that permeate this anti-A.A. site. And to what end! Dick B.

  9. Welcome Dick B! Good to see you in here. Sorry about the language and stuff. I understand you to be a spiritual and socially mature person... much more so than myself.

    I have a few questions to ask you sometime. I just need to find the right time and the right place to do so. I have some obvious disagreements with your approach to 12 Step recovery, but I also believe that we are on the same team for the most part. We just have a different approach/methodology to getting there.

    For instance, I have a brother who is a born-again southern Baptist zealot who has an approach to God that's much different than my own. He's new to this path to sobriety and a spiritual life... if you will. He's obviously a devout Christian and is perhaps better than me in that regard. But one discrepancy we have is the fact that he believes that Jesus says that no Christian should drink alcohol. He thinks that there is no such thing as an alcoholic in the physical sense, but just another sinner.

    I believe that a person can drink booze and be fine, provided they can and do use it in moderation.

    I would like to hear your take on that.

    Also, he says that A.A. speaks of God... but just doesn't have the balls to call Him Jesus. Another controversial subject.

    Thanks again for dropping by and welcome!