Frank McKibbon from Denver Colorado 1991 Pitch in South Dakota

Sorry for the rough recording.  I'm having a hard time getting formats converted.  I'll try to clean it up later. 

Hope you recovered alcoholics enjoy this.  It is provocative.  This guy was my sponsor's sponsor.

R.I.P. Frank.

War Stories

I'm bumping my post back up as it was sort of interrupted the first go-around and because it's slow in here again;


War Stories.   What are they?  Why bad?  What's wrong with talking about booze?  What is wrong with talking about 'what it was like'?  Where do we cross the line between war story and qualifying?





I suppose we have to define the line of when, where, and what; Let's say we're giving a 10 minute pitch for our birthday or we're the first of two speakers... or let's say this is our lead and we're given the whole hour to speak.  Or... let's just say we're at a meeting and the topic is the 1st Step.





I belonged to a group where, on you A.A. birthday (yearly intervals only), you get up and give a 10 minute pitch of what happened.  Nothing else.  Just how you drank booze.  No God talk or wonderful shiny glitter talk... not the wonderous things you've done now that you're sober.





When I give a pitch, I talk about booze and my relation to it.  I try to demonstrate where, when, and how I lost control physically and mentally.  I then talk about what happened... a description of my notion to try A.A., yet again... or in this last case, my decision to go to "that" A.A. meeting and come clean on where I was at... with no hope or notion that this was it... the big surrender.  But surrender I did, and I talk about what was said then... by me and by Gary;





Me:  I need help.





Gary:  We can help you.  Do you have a problem with booze?





Me:  Yes.





Gary:  Do you want to quit for good and all?  Do you want to do something about it?





Me:  Yes.  Yes.





Gary:  Get writing.  Have a 4th Step done for me in... 21 days.  Be open to your 1st Step.  Maybe you're not alky.  Maybe you are.  Don't answer than now.  Review your 1st step and your concept of God each time before you sit down to write.  Decide in or out.  You need Power and you need it now.  You are up for grabs.  We cannot fix you or stop you.  Either you're gonna do this stuff or you're not, Bud.  It's up to you.





...





So I did that and it lead to now... 7 years sober and counting.





That's basically my story, my lead, my pitch.





But I talk about booze.  Not just in a general way.  I can talk about the feel, the taste, the comfort and peace and ease...  Booze did for me what nothing else that I could muster could.  Are you like me?

Thanks but no thanks!!!

Guys I am out of here. I did not come here for this shit as I'm sure you did not either. I don't even know any of you and at this point would like to keep it that way.

Have fun with your ideas of AA and what ever else entertains you.

I enjoy Sober Recovery ideas of conversation much more palatable.

7 Effective Ways to Deal With Criticism

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Nobody likes being criticised but, unfortunately it is a fact of life. To be able to respond to criticism with nobility and detachment is an important life skill, which few people have. If we respond to criticism without careful consideration, it can easily lead to unnecessary suffering.

1. What Can I Learn from Criticism?

Most criticism is probably based, at least in part, on some truths. Criticism may appear negative. But, through criticism we have the opportunity to learn and improve from their suggestions.

2. Respond to the suggestions not the tone of the criticism.

The problem is that people may make valuable critical suggestions. However, there tone and style of criticism means that we respond not to the suggestions but remember there confrontational manner. In this respect we need to separate the criticism from the style of criticism. Even if people speak in a tone of anger, we should try to detach their emotion from the useful suggestions which lie underneath.

3. Value criticism.

The problems is that quite often, we only value praise. When people speak kind words we feel happy. When people criticise we feel miserable. However, if we only received insincere praise and false flattery, how would we ever make progress? If we wish to improve and develop we should invite constructive criticism and appreciate their suggestions.

4. Don’t take it personally.

This is often the biggest problem which occurs with regard to criticism. If I criticise my Mother’s cooking, she feels personally offended. But, it is a mistake to identify ourselves with an apple pie. Somebody may find good reasons why our cooking is bad; but, this does not mean they are criticising ourselves. When people criticise us directly, we should feel they are not criticising our real self; but, just an unillumined aspect of ourselves. When we criticise others, we are perhaps criticising their pride or jealousy; but, the jealousy is a mere passing emotion, it is not the real person.

5. Ignore False Criticism.

Sometimes we are criticised with no justification. This is a painful experience. But, potentially we can deal with it more easily than criticism which is justified. One option is to remain aloof and ignore it completely. We should feel that false criticism is as insignificant as an ant trying to harm an elephant. If we remain silent and detached the criticism is given no energy. If we feel the necessity of fighting it – in a way, we give it more importance than it deserves. By remaining silent we maintain a dignity that others will come to respect.

6. Don’t Respond Immediately

It is best to wait a little before responding. If we respond with feelings of anger or injured pride we will soon regret it. If we wait patiently it can enable us to reflect in a calmer way.

7. Smile

Smiling, even a false smile, can helps us to relax more. It creates a more positive vibration and smoothes the situation. It will definitely help psychologically. Smiling will motivate the other person to moderate their approach.

... and now for a non-A.A. related announcement

Hey gang, I was wondering if I could ask a favor; I've got a forum I frequent and I'm not doing well there with expressing my passions for my favorite state, my favorite city within that state, and one of my favorite pasttimes in that city within that state.

I live in Pueblo Colorado and I like talkin' Mexican Food. Was wondering if you could come over to the blog and drop in a comment or two about what your thoughts are on Colorado, Mexican Food, or maybe even your own favorite state, your favorite food, etc.

I want to direct a few folks away from the forum and let them know that there's a safe place to discuss this stuff without getting their town, state, and favorite restaurants insulted as being "slop" or "crap".

You might even say what an asshole you all think I am.

Anyway... carry on. Thx in advance for any of your comments.

Oh! The blog title; http://www.mcgowdogblog.blogspot.com/
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Tips, right?
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When does it become time to take the cotton out of your mouth and put it back in your ears?

Is it 1 year? 2 Years? 5 years? How about 8?

After 8 years, my sponsor said I could take the cotton out of my mouth, that was supposedly in my ears, now what am I supposed to do with this damned cotton? Stick it down the new guy's mouth?

Step 11

An interesting topic came up at a discussion meeting the other night. Step 11 states "Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understand Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out." The topic centered around the part "...praying only for His knowledge for us...", with the focus on the operative word only. Does this imply that it's suggested that we shouldn't pray for others?

Let's look at a situation close to home. Recently many of us prayed for Patrick's Mom. Was that wrong according to Step 11? Can't I pray for the health and happiness of my children and grandchildren? Why do I have to limit my prayers to only knowledge of God's will for me?

Now having been through the previous 10 steps it's obvious to me that my will sucks. My will is what got me into trouble in the first place. Praying for knowledge of God's will and the power to carry that out is critical to my recovery. Jim just mentioned in a recent comment the GV article by Tiebold which tied together surrender, ego, and hitting bottom as being interrelated into a critical requirement for sobriety. So there no problem with that part.

But what's wrong with praying for others, too? There were some interesting answers to the question (and a lot of weaseling) during the meeting. I have my own answer, but would be interested in what you guys have to say on the matter. This isn't a closed book exam, so feel free to refer to Kushner or the 12 and 12. Neatness counts, and points will be taken for spelling and grammar.

Balance

From 24 Hours A Day:

I must keep balance by keeping spiritual things at the center of my life. God will give me this poise and balance if I pray for it. This poise will give me power in dealing with the lives of others. This balance will manifest itself more and more in my own life. I should keep material things in their proper place and keep spiritual things at the center of my life. Then I will be at peace amid the distractions of everyday living.

I pray that I may dwell with God at the center of my life. I pray that I may keep that inner peace at the center of my being.

I often hear others speak of finding balance in their lives. I can relate, as I have sought balance in my own life. But really what I thought was balance was a juggling act of trying to keep everyone happy. In trying to find balance between work, family, working with others and my on spiritual practices, I degenerated into a frantic rushing to and from fro, and the result was that there was no balance and I was a frazzled, burned-out mess.

When I was new in Alcoholics Anonymous, a man sat down with me and outlined the entire program using the circle & triangle symbol that used to be on the title page of the book "Alcoholics Anonymous." The three sides of the triangle are recovery, unity, and service. He explained that no part of the triangle stands alone, that all three are interwoven and meant to be done in proportion. He also explained that one day I wouldn't know if I was in recovery, unity, or service because all three would become one and the circle itself is a promise-it means "as one," and that I would become whole in body, mind, & spirit and become one with my Creator and with my brothers and sisters. He also explained that as long as I lived from my spiritual center, with the Creator at the center, there would be balance because everything will be as it should be.

Stanton Peele vs, Dr. Drew

Maybe someone more educated then my BA in business can explain to me why some folks believe Stanton Peele is more credible the Dr. Drew or better Dr. Phil.
I personally think it is because Oprah by passed Stanton for a show and grabbed Phil and as far as Dr. Drew, well lets face it, he is just better looking. More pleasing to look at on TV then Stanton.
If you have ever read "Iron John" by Robert Bly (great american poet) Robert talks about the hairy beast that lives at the bottom of the swamp, metaphorically of course. Stanton every time I see him reminds me of this beast. This beast must be exorcised.
I find people marketing and selling something of their own while denigrating someone else or something else very difficult to hear. I don't care if it is the American way of capitalism (uck!!! drug addicts used for capitalism).
Stanton needs to just focus on his brand of behavioral treatments and leave it at that.
If it works great, if not or people are not being swayed towards your brand of addiction recovery then go back to the drawing board.
Hey Stanton, try being centered on one passion.
Dr. Drew is pure "HoolyWood" plain and simple. Most of his patients are Actors. It is a "reality show" that most say in the end, helped them. Who is to say it did not. Not me.
I found in all my years being in and around drugs and alcohol people straighten out in many ways, there is no "ONE WAY" or "THE WAY".
What I do like about AA is that it does not criticize other alternatives.

War Stories

War Stories.   What are they?  Why bad?  What's wrong with talking about booze?  What is wrong with talking about 'what it was like'?  Where do we cross the line between war story and qualifying?


I suppose we have to define the line of when, where, and what; Let's say we're giving a 10 minute pitch for our birthday or we're the first of two speakers... or let's say this is our lead and we're given the whole hour to speak.  Or... let's just say we're at a meeting and the topic is the 1st Step.


I belonged to a group where, on you A.A. birthday (yearly intervals only), you get up and give a 10 minute pitch of what happened.  Nothing else.  Just how you drank booze.  No God talk or wonderful shiny glitter talk... not the wonderous things you've done now that you're sober.


When I give a pitch, I talk about booze and my relation to it.  I try to demonstrate where, when, and how I lost control physically and mentally.  I then talk about what happened... a description of my notion to try A.A., yet again... or in this last case, my decision to go to "that" A.A. meeting and come clean on where I was at... with no hope or notion that this was it... the big surrender.  But surrender I did, and I talk about what was said then... by me and by Gary;


Me:  I need help.


Gary:  We can help you.  Do you have a problem with booze?


Me:  Yes.


Gary:  Do you want to quit for good and all?  Do you want to do something about it?


Me:  Yes.  Yes.


Gary:  Get writing.  Have a 4th Step done for me in... 21 days.  Be open to your 1st Step.  Maybe you're not alky.  Maybe you are.  Don't answer than now.  Review your 1st step and your concept of God each time before you sit down to write.  Decide in or out.  You need Power and you need it now.  You are up for grabs.  We cannot fix you or stop you.  Either you're gonna do this stuff or you're not, Bud.  It's up to you.


...


So I did that and it lead to now... 7 years sober and counting.


That's basically my story, my lead, my pitch.


But I talk about booze.  Not just in a general way.  I can talk about the feel, the taste, the comfort and peace and ease...  Booze did for me what nothing else that I could muster could.  Are you like me?

Dialogue with FTG

Friend said:

Oh, I got through!

Let me try again:

Excellent post, McGow. I wish you well with your new direction.

Joe, I wanted to address your comment about our unwillingness to dialog or find common ground with you all. Since you don't read ST, I'm sure you haven't seen the instances when we've said that we have some common ground with you Big Book guys.

I'm not sure if I can leave a link, but I wanted to direct you to a comment I wrote last year. At the end of the comment, I detail all the points I think we have in common. (You'll see that didn't go over very well.) I hope you have a look at it though, because I think the comment might be a good kick off to a real dialog.

You can find it on this thread: www.stinkin-thinkin.com/2010/03/04/denial/#comment-3957

(I added a space in the url, after "thinkin" in case it was the link that kept my comment from posting earlier.)

If that doesn't lead you to the comment, the time stamp on the comment is March 5 2010 11:10

Best,
ftg

Addition to Joe's Post ... by McGowdog

__________________________________

I just opened this up to see if ftg's link will work now.



Joe said:



Ok Friend, I tracked down your comment from March 5, 2010 regarding Court ordered attendance at AA meetings. I didn't find a detailed list of common points, though. But that may be my fault.


by ftg:

Here are things we agree on, at least things I thought we agreed on:







AA shouldn’t be the addictions treatment institution that it is, especially when the “inmates are running the asylum.”






In its present incarnation, as the cultic cesspool of Big Fish, who have no qualification to be sponsoring anyone, it does more harm than good.






People shouldn’t be sentenced to attend AA meetings.






There should be more medically sound and responsible addictions treatment available to those for whom BB AA doesn’t work. But the fact that everyone seems to think that AA is the answer tends to put this on the back burner.






Institutions like Hazelden should get the hell out of the way of progress; stop lobbying with the liquor companies; stop using AA as aftercare.






Dipshits like “Dr. Bob and Bill,” et al make a living off promoting the Conventional Wisdom that AA is for everyone.






AA should exist in its more proper niche as a spiritual/religious… whatever, where it can be honest about what it is, and stick to its principles, with some oversight and responsibility.






So, I THINK we agree on these points, but when we give examples (like my numerous “Keep Coming Back” posts, giving examples of people who have been sentenced to AA meetings), yall insist that no one HAS to go.






When we bring up the abysmal success rates, you guys fight about that, as if you believe that Pop AA really works (I mean, no one’s talking about BB AA meetings when they are talking statistics, and you do know that. Considering your own way of doing AA, success rates should be utterly irrelevant to you.)






I mean, you guys say it’s not for everyone, and when we point out the reasons why, you guys flip out.






I really do want to know why you feel that we are more of a danger to your conception of AA than AA itself is? I kinda like having you all around here, but I really think you picked the wrong hill to die on.






I might misremember this, but I asked Danny (real live recovered alcoholic) about this, and I think the bottom line there was that Pop AA is a good place to 12th Step new members for “Real AA.”






While we don’t believe what Danny believes, I still had a respectful dialog/argument with him, when he was around, which I suspect is because he’s confident about his position and we’re confident about ours. Neither has a reason to feel at all threatened by the other. There’s some common ground; there are places we agree to disagree, and there are issues we spar over.






Again, What gives?

This Blog

Hey guys, I want to talk to you about this blog and our current mission statement.

I spoke with one of my Cyber Recovery mentors and I want to do away with our current mission statement and start over with it.  I want to get back to talking about recovery... pros and cons... and get away from battling it out with Stinkin' Thinkin' and remove any mention of Orange because to his credit, he's never engaged me personally nor us as a group that I know of.

I like friction as do some or most of us.  But I don't like the current path we've been going down.  I want to hear from some of our long time contributor here, ones we haven't heard from in a while too... such as Tony J, Mark, Freya, etc.  I also want to weigh in with input from Jim, Rob B, Karl (Cuda), Joe...

I should let you know that I want to move forward with where I want to go... not with where I came from or what I've been tagged with.  I didn't start this blog to become Mr. A.A., a dirty mouthed or racist or chauvinistic or anti-semitic or angry intolerant and low self-esteemed colleague in recovery.  Nor am I a spiritual guru.

I do want to get away from the direction that I've encouraged here and the ball that I myself set in motion.  Many of us here were kicked off of Sober Recovery.  Many of us here have done battle with ST and their many offshoots.  That's fine.  But I don't want a perceived or real resentment to drive us going forward.  Some of us may have done inventory over the thing, some of us may have not.

I no longer resent nor have any remorse over our/my battles with our adversaries and friends in recovery.  I want to bury the hatchet, so to speak.  I want to stop attacking others by name and character, whether it be real names, user names, etc. 

I don't want to do this in such a way as to speak for A.A. or recovery in general.  A more general look at the Golden Rule should be motivation enough.  I don't like being called names.  I don't like my character assassinated.  I don't like my flaws and failures pointed out to me, whether perceived or real.  But when it happens, it seems natural to lash out and retaliate... or project.  I also want to get away from attacking those that I see engaging in MOTR... because deep down, I have a sense that those folks have a right too... whether in an A.A. meeting, N.A. meeting or anywhere else.  It's up to the recovered alcoholic and good sponsorship to sort the folks we can help out from those that we cannot.

I don't care so much for notoriety nor popularity here, but want to start working on quality and ... purity ... of Truth, if nothing else.  We are not the source of Truth, obviously... but we have seen it, experienced it. 

Do you guys know what I'm saying?  What do you think?  I want to put our mission statement under construction and hear your input of creating a new direction.

I want some of the folks at Stinkin' Thinkin' to know that I don't hold any grudges against them.  There are soem folks from there or enemies from Sober Recovery that I've battled with... some of which I was able to hash out my differences with and set those aside... and have come to some terms of mutual respect.  Well there are others with whom I've had mutual respect with from the get-go... despite the harsh words we've shared and despite our differences.  But I'd like to add that they've done me a world of good personally... to open my eyes to what's become of the A.A. fellowship, the addictions recovery industry, and the perceived and perhaps logistic failures of the A.A. program and its shortcomings to at least some representation of the population at large.

I agree with their view on whacked-out sponsors and step-Nazis out there that may/do cause damage to others.  As far as cult talk and bashing of religion... spiritual quests... we can agree to disagree. 

M.A. has told me way back that he would not argue religion with me.  I took it as an insult that he would call my conviction with A.A. as a religion.  But despite that, he's been true to his word.

As far as ftg goes, I honestly don't know why we had a falling out.  She hasn't engaged me in public  or private since my last quest to post over at ST... since this most recent one.  I think she was upset with my battles with some of her other posters, IDK.  But I tried to keep my side of the street clean with her as best I could.

In any case, I've dropped a couple of posts over there with discussion aimed at setting the record straight on our past and our recent inclusion of Danny.  I read Stinkin' from time to time and I'm usually looking real quick to see if myself or one of our authors or folks over at Sober Recovery are in the Lime Light and I even glance at some of their links to other blogs or recovery discussions going on... such as the Charlie Sheen vs A.A. fiasco.  Once in a while, I see posters over there that are not necessarily proAA, but they are not impressed with anti/ex-A.A. either.

I decided to bring Danny aboard not because of his anti-Stinkin' Thinkin' stance, but because of his quest to express himself in a safe environment... free from censorship... and to eventually talk pro-recovery... not anti-ST.  In other words, an enemy of our adversaries is not necessarily our friend... so to speak. 

You don't have to be pro A.A. to get along with most of us over here.  You can hate A.A. in fact... but I personally am not here to be swayed into some talk of cult, religion, alcohol reform, thought reform, moral reform, political agenda, etc.  I don't care about anybody's past.  I don't care about your criminal record, your medical history, your political affiliation, your creed, the color of your skin, your gender, or your sexual preference.  "We are not Saints".  What I do care about is your current agenda... or lack thereof.  If you're out there causing harm, preying on people, harming people, I ask you to step aside and clean that shit up.  If you're an alcoholic and willing to come to terms with any of that, then there are some folks in here and me myself... that can attempt to help you with that.

That's what Rob B, Jim, Karl, Tony J, Joe, and even Freya have done with me.  They've had conversations with me... either on the internet or over the phone... and have discussed with me some of the  shortcomings that have been blocking me... as I give them spiritual consent to do so.

... And I want to get back to what has attracted some of these folks to this blog in the first place... to call bullshit when we see it... but to be willing to seek it and cast it out in ourselves as well.  In other words, we're here to practice what we preach... so to speak.

I've heard talk of Glass Houses lately... and I want to... as I said previously.. bury the hatchet and move forward.

I wish we could have conversations over here with some folks who are anti/XA... in an intelligent and cordial manner.  I would like to someday see folks like MA, ftg, Orange, Danny S, Dick B., etc. come over here from time to time... to drop by and disagree with us on something... or to clue us in on some recent atrocity going on in the world of recovery or cyber recovery.

I just feel we are a long way from this.  Some folks don't want to bury the hatchet.  They want to stay polarized... to be different... to be civil and smart and just and ... right!  They want to keep their enemies underfoot... they are not free.  I don't want to be that way anymore.  I got other cool shit to do and I hope y'all do to.

Daniel Bennison,DannyB II, Heretik, Heretikreb, Cuggle and Diablo

"McGowdog says

Thanks BF. I don’t really know Diablo to be honest.

If he’s a bad guy, what am I supposed to do? Kick him off? We have a “give them a long rope” policy on our blog. If it turns out he’s no good for us, can we trade? Like say diablo for JD?"

Hertik wrote:
Patrick I really warranted this statement from you: "I don’t really know Diablo to be honest."I came on here and told you who I was on ST.

Heretik wrote:
and if I feel like adding more usernames I will. (To answer FTG summation of my usernames.
Cuggle is not me and never has been me. That I screwed up royally. Heretikreb and heretik is a username used by two people. We both liked it so much that we use it. A good friend of mine who has worked for me for close to 25 years started using heretik on the Fornits site. I use it everywhere else. Cuggle my cousin who was in town used my computer as others do. Cuggle was initially posting on ST from a laptop with a AT&T card, well that had to be used so without thinking she went the PC and posted. This is when are sleuth FTG picked up on the mix up. Why is it so unfathomably that two people would post off the same computer to the same site.

Now that is enough of that, because truthfully I don't give a rats fuck what anyone thinks about how I conduct my business. I am in no fucking mood to deal with Elsa and her stupid retarded elementary school bullshit. She is so caught up in her school yard shit that she wants to drag everyone else into it. Her partner is another fucking clone who enjoys scuttlebutt gossiping sessions. WTF is going on here. No!!!! I have never once when I left a site or been banned (and that was "ONCE" from a religious site) ever have gone back in any capacity.
Stinkin Thinkin go and look at yourselves. You have had a large turn over in membership for exactly this same paranoia and controlling shit. You do not respect others and your vindictiveness is legendary amongst your current and former members.
Matt Hoffman stabbed a very good friend of mine at Elan and then started shit with him once again after they graduated. Matt continues to say I don't know him but I do and well.
Wayne is just fucking nuts, check this out. I supposedly had 20 people beat this girl down, we then hand bound her and tied her to the back of a van and dragged her around a tar parking lot.
Don't you think the State of Maine and Maine Medical would have had something to say about this.
Wayne wrote a story because he did not like my fight with Matt and others essentially. If you investigate these stories and comments thoroughly. I have neither written most of them and Wayne has not corroborated, substaniated or come forth with one witness to account for anything he has said. The Elan site has people who were there when Wayne says he was there and we can not figure out who the hell he is.
Last I came to Elan in 1975 graduated in 1977 became a employee in 1977 and left in 1978. I was 17 years old (2 months shy of 18) when I first started working for Elan and left disgusted at 19 years old. Why did I stay at Elan at 17, I had no other place to go. I did not want to be homeless again been there done that at a early age of 14 years old.
Patrick and you other folk, I would suggest you get out of this. This is a sick group of folks that have been dogging me for two years.
As far as my character. I own a business that employes 127 people, I have a wife and two grown children. I have grandkids. I participate in my community. I have friends I have had for most of my life, thank god, especially since the shit I went through as a young child.
I go out of my way to ingratiate everyone I meet so I am not just ingratiating Massive Attack on her Blog. If you were to read her blog you would probably understand why I am there. I am on Go GO Rach Blog because she is just as crazy as I am. I love crazy people.
I am not hiding nor displaying multiple personalities. I do not play all angles but I do live in a world that has more then one point of view.
If I am not allowed to explore and involve myself in different avenues then I feel the person, people or entity is coming close to a cult and I want nothing more to do with it.
Thanks for listening,
H.

Ever been to a meeting and heard this?

So the topic was on the second step and I got called on first.  I've got energy and I don't mind... setting the pace so to speak.



It went along pretty good for a bit ... I think.  The chair person was a good one... good topic.



Then just when it seemed like the meeting was gonna fizzle, E got called on.  He said some very powerful stuff.  He's sober 30+.  He is one of only three guys in town who can/will hear my 3 column inventory.  He had said something to the effect... "So if you can manage well... or come in with that desparation that you really need to do it this time... like it's the last house on the block and I really really got to get it this time or else and you do... you fit the description of the hard drinker."



I don't know if that's exactly how he said it or what he said... but it was something to that effect.  But it hit me as true.  Then the very next gal who was picked said, "E... usually you say something that inspires me... but I'm not feeling it this time.  Maybe it will hit me in a few hours or so."



I can't believe that she said that.  First of all... who give a shit what you think or feel?  The thing he said seemed to have annoyed or upset her.  Maybe she heard some truth and it bothered her.  Maybe she heard something that didn't "resonate" with her.



I think the real deal is this... MOTRers and/or hard drinkers DO NOT like being called hard drinkers.  It offends them.  They don't want to be called out as hard drinkers and they don't want to be moved.  They like comfort... making coffee... cleaning ashtrays.  Oh wait, we don't do that anymore.



The later part of E's statement may confuse some of you ... you may not agree with it.  But here's my own experience with the thing... my last time back went like this;  I didn't even think I had any resove left.  I knew that my drinking was spiraling out of hand and I was realizing that I could not bargain with my wife any longer.  Get sober or bye bye wife.  I'd tried to arrange trying some "controlled drinking" and she would have no part of it.  So I really really was geared towards splitting with her and going it alone... not so much because I wanted to continue drinking like I was... but because I was quite sure that I'd already done that A.A. shit and it was just not for me anymore.  I didn't want to do it again, I didn't want to fail you folks yet again... and I also didn't want to put up with your shit and hear your lectures.  I'd rather drink bourbon and just say "Fuck All Y'all!"



So I had absolutely no hope in coming back... yet again... and I didn't want to even bother y'all with it again.



But I did.  I swallowed my pride for just a few moments for some reason, came back in and said, "Here I am.  Can you help me?"  This group did not tell me "You have to want to quit more than you want to drink."  or "You have to want it for you."  or "Easy does it... one day at a time."  No, they said, "Yes, we can help you.  You can do this.  But first, do you think you have a problem with booze... and are you ready to quit for good and all (or maybe even 'Do you want to do something about it?')"



I said "Yes" and "Yes" and I meant it.  I walked away from there with a complete sense of surrender and I felt hope immediately.



I don't know if what I experienced then was right or wrong, good bad or indifferent... but I knew what E was sayin'.

STinkin THinkin Post; Is Addiction A Disease?

You guys have to read this thread and the comments. What a bunch of chicken shits. The minute MA says something on this blog everyone one kowtows to his point of view.

EX: "MA saysI believe that alcohol addiction is a disease, and I believe that I could argue the point pretty well.
Here is the link read the comments to long to print;

http://stinkin-thinkin.com/2011/04/04/skepchick-asks/comment-page-1/#comment-45972

I always though they felt it wasn't a disease.
Now are they playing semantics with Alcoholism and Alcohol Addiction. Is that the game today with other forms treatment models, to call it Alcohol Addiction.

Doubting AA'ers Crediability Issue?

anaconda22

Location: Chicago Area


Doubting AA'ers Crediability Issue?
I have been thinking about going back to an AA meeting but have a HUGE problem. I simply don't believe many AA folks who claim long sobriety periods. I also have trouble identifying with others in the room. For example, one guy use to always complain about his stressful job and the car traffic getting to the meeting. I almost feel as if you still have a job and a car you aren't even a real alcoholic. I have been asked to leave a meeting for smelling like booze/drunk and accused of being aggressive? I also find the spirituality side of AA as being fake. If I want spirituality I will go to the experts at my local church. Anyways, should I try this Christian church program or give AA/NA another try?
 
 
 
Dee
 
I think you should try as many things as possible, Anaconda.
 
 



anaconda22

Okay thanks Dee. I will perhaps try both. First by joining the church program and going back to a AA meeting. I think I will not comment for a while though because I just want to be "in the shadows" until I get more sobriety time and my mind clears from my latest ugly bender.

kjell

AA will always be there for you Ana. Always.


...but you're going to need to relax and understand that your solution just might be outside of your own head.


If you try to break the program down, you will.
If you focus on your differences, you'll never see the similarities.
If you continue to compare your insides with others outsides, you'll always feel apart.
If you continue to question another's spirituality, you'll never become spiritual yourself.


AA is a spiritual program.


It's simply your thinking.


It's up to you.


All you gotta do is get out of you own way. Let some folks who know how to live sober guide you until you can make your own, sober, sane decisions.


_________________________________
skipping a little frothy emotional appeal
_________________________________



anaconda22

The thing I chuckle about is people who have to insist that they are alcoholics. If you don't have the real "war stories" and stuff what the heck are you doing at an AA meeting? I wish I went to meetings back in the 1940 or 1950 at least I could relate better. I don't count peoples sobriety time that aren't even real alcoholics to begin with.

DT said something...

anaconda22

I agree Daytrader but the fact is I just feel like I fit in. Why bother dragging yourself to an AA meeting if a person still has a good job??? I mean instead of offering me a ride to the meeting why can't one these AA'ers get me some work? I read in the Big Book that folks back then even offered a place to stay a while to get back on ones feet? No one has ever offered me that. If I have to go to these AA meetings I feel like they owe me something ya know?

______________________________

more frothy emotional appeal insues

______________________________

anaconda22

Well metitade while i never "groped" anyone at a meeting I am a "shifty" character. I often smell like booze when I use to stagger into an AA meeting in downtown Chicago in the afternoon. I was used to seeing the upper class and would bum a free lunch. That's the thing about AA every one is "shifty".

________________________________

more frothy emotional appeal ensues...

________________________________

... then finally!  Someone gets it;

BP44

This whole thread and the OP remind of a guy who used to come here and drum up a lot of drama by announcing he was going to claim a 5 year cake and coin even though he hadn't maintained sobriety. I haven't seen him post here in a long time, but was constantly stirring the pot by starting posts with ludicrous positions on AA and AAers. I wonder if it's a coincidense that he was from Chicago?

Some other poster from this thread;

I know who you are talking about. I cant remember his name right off hand.I doubt its the same guy though.


I just remembered his name. I wonder how he's doing.



... then CarolD comes in to issue the troops their nightly supply of SoftPeter;

Members come...members go......

bless them all on their journey.
This thread has gone off point....it's closed.
__________________


Each Day Sober Is A Victory!!
Joy In AA Recovery!
________________________________________
 
Yeah kiddies... you were snowed over... to the tune of 55 posts... not including the beauties that were removed.
 

 
You're dealing with a troll by the name of Tiburon88!

_______________________________________________________


Speaking of Tib… he or someone like him may have just reincarnated;



DibaNamhar



Member


Join Date: Jan 2011


Posts: 2

My doctor told me to f*ck off when I told him about my problem
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I finally plucked up the courage to go see my doctor about giving up drink. I told him that if I try to quit drinking, I get bad comedowns. Sweating, bad dreams, night terrors, cannot function, bed ridden, wake up with terrible headache, fatugued, the lot.


He basically gave me the number of some clinic, and that was it. He said the clinic was rough and ready, and for people who have lost their way in life.


Is this the normal thing for doctors to do ? I thought he would help me, but he couldn't wait to show me the door.


I asked if he would take my blood pressure, and it was as if I had asked to screw his wife.


He said 'Why do you want me to check your blood pressure ?'


I smiled and said, ' because I want to see if it's ok.'


He threw his arms in the air, and said ' well I can tell you now, your blood pressure is high because of your drinking'.


I asked if I needed any drugs, and he said no.


Is this normal behaviour for the doc, or am I going mad ?

And no, he didn't take my blood pressure.



I think it's obvious that you need to find a new doctor.

_________________
Stobert



If you find your Dr unsatisfactory you really owe it to yourself to find a new one.

Welcome to SR
D



I hope you find another doctor that you feel is a better match for you.

Are you doing anything else to address your issues with alcohol? (counseling, AA, etc?)[wow, this from an non-A.A.er]



Guess Who?
Quote:



10. Medical Advice: No Posts giving medical advice, medication advice, or psychiatric advice. Do not use the forum to give or ask for professional medical or psychiatric advice. If you are a medical professional, please remember the forums and chat are for peer support only and not to be used for distributing professional medical advice and/or using the forum to represent your professional services. Medical and Psychiatric advice includes giving a diagnosis, treatment plan, medication advice and dosage suggestions, over the counter and natural home remedies that should be approved by medical professionals. Detox can be dangerous and life threatening at times. Please consult with your physician.




Many people do quit drinking who have not been to treatment centers


I am one of them.
_________________
Each Day Sober Is A Victory!!
Joy In AA Recovery!




CarolD



Forum Leader
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 30,830

DibaNamhar....welcome to SR....


I'm sorry your doctor was dismissive of your concerns.
I have no idea about the place he suggested or what they do.  I do think it's worth checking out however.
__________________
Each Day Sober Is A Victory!!
Joy In AA Recovery!





... now a not-so-serene-in-Dixie...
 
If members can't share with a welcome or support

they do not have to share on this thread or on SR.


Posts have been removed and others that quoted them
Please stop sniping at each other...thank you.


Quote:


4. No Flaming: Posting of any content with the intention of disrupting the forum or inflaming members-be it on someone's person, religious beliefs, race, national background, sexual orientation, or recovery program. This includes flaming, flame baiting, registration of multiple accounts or impersonation of another member. Do not Harass, threaten, embarrass or cause distress or discomfort upon another Online Forum participant. This includes flaming on our forums or other public forums.


No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members. Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun of, or insult another member or non-member. Decisions about health and recovery are highly personal, individual choices. "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.


Ignore bothersome members. If there is someone on the forum that bothers you, select the Ignore option on the drop down menu under their name on the post. You won't see any posts from this member again.
__________________
Each Day Sober Is A Victory!!
Joy In AA Recovery!

... then drama and frothy emotional appeal follows...

___________________________________



___________________________________

I think I just found keepcomingback... aka GodPowered... aka Veritas1... on the 12 Step subforum... page 27... thread Your reason for your recovery;




Veritas1
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 416


I am in recovery to stop destroying myself and others around me with destructive drinking. I am in recovery because I matter, it matters to me, how I live.


I am doing this for me. It must matter to me, what kind of life I live, and how I live, and I am doing it as an effort in self love, and self preservation, if that makes any sense to anyone.


I am doing this as it matters to accomplish something, and grow, and to change for myself, so that I can be an incredible person of integrity, and honesty, and love, and also for my health, so I can live, and be of service to others, and be someone that was a pleasure to know.


I am doing this so that I might realize an abundant life, the life God has planned for me, always had planned for me until I worshipped the bottle.
______________________

I estimate this to be her first post back... first of about 416 since November.


Could be wrong... but could be right. If so, I ought to be a Mod over at SR. But I would have to be granted "doctor" status;


Oh, your wife left you with the kids because you drink too much and are abusive? You tried to make amends to her and she realized that you're still a prick? Maybe you should sneak back into the bottle and act like nothing ever happened, her untreated Alanon will kick in and take you back.

Maybe something besides MOTR and a few posts on SR will be necessary for your survival and hapiness.  I prescribe you with two weeks of closed A.A. meetings to find out if your real alkie or not... then we'll go from there.  In the meantime, shut up, stop posting on forums, go to work, put in a good day of work, pay your bills, and pray... or don't.