Here are a few moments of recent postings at ST where a sane person stumbled onto the set just to be dive-bombed and just to have shit flung on them for doing so;
MA sets us up with a quote of a non-anti/XAer here to lampoon;
MA’s treatment of a new poster at ST… putting the poster in the spotlight by putting a star on his newly created blog posting;
Hogwashed says, “LOL, I see most of the negative comments people are leaving are from those who have never been to an AA meeting, or went to a few and quit going. Sounds like to me you are fear mongering over something you have no clue about, or are soured by something in your personal life, and taking it out on AA as a whole, If you’re going to speak about something, get your facts straight before you comment, and stop being ignorant.
AA doesn’t recruit first of all. If somebody wants to beat their addiction on will power, then go for it and see how far you’ll make it, because no one shows up at an AA meeting for coffee and conversation, so something must be seriously wrong with you if you’re there in the first place.
Secondly, AA cannot be held responsible for some deranged people that should be in jail to begin with, so why don’t you take it up with the judge or jury that released these convicts. AA is a non profit organization that wants nothing but to help other suffering alcoholics, in order to help themselves.
Thirdly, if anyone is a DR. or scientist here and has the cure for alcoholism, why are you keeping it a secret?? If not then close your lips, and get off your soap box.
AA has been the only thing that has been closest to a “cure” for addiction since 70 years ago when it started. And was started in part by 2 doctors in addition to Bill W..
Fourthly.. Convicts are sent mandatory to AA and such programs by the judge.
People who voluntarily go to AA have an 90 % success rate since Bill W and DR Bob started the program. It wasn’t until the 60′s and 70′s that rehabs got their hands into the money pit that the AA message became washed and weak, and the courts starting sending convicts to it.
AA is not really a religious program, the only thing is you believe in something greater then[sic] yourself. weather[sic] its the fellowship, the meetings, God etc. Because like I said before, If you’re in an AA meeting to begin with, you obviously have some problems, and haven’t been able to deal with them by yourself.
I’d be interested in hearing rebuttals, but obviously a majority of people here are too fat headed and ignorant, to change their minds. Which I could care less, because I understand, “Ignorance is Bliss” Have a miserable day. : )
Oh and by the way, If anyone wants to call me a big book thumper or such, I’m not necessarily in any program or belief, I just research things and experience them before i start spouting off ignorant spittle at people or about people.
I’d take on anyone in a conversation like wise about politics, current events, or religion.”
Now, I've highlighted some comments from diablo because his contributions are what made this comment section blow up in the first place;
This just in!!!
1. JD says
“Of course, if she had been, she could have made her way to this blog, where our resident AA commenters can tell her how resentful she is, and how she could worry about keeping her side of the street clean.”
MA, after the bad AAs say that, then what do they say after they say that? And may we please hear the whole conversation that’s playing in your mind?
Is the volume loud or soft, when the AAs say these things to the people like the woman you mentioned who are not on this forum, because of the things that, as you say, didn’t happen to them? I’m curious too if the voices you hear in these non existent conversations are soft or gruff?
Do they ever tell you to ‘do things’?
1. JD says
Our group was at a suburban park practicing volleyball for the summer picnic competition, and one of the kids ran up to his mother and said a fellow had shown him something dirty on a camera and tried to pull him into the bushes.
We looked around the park until the kid identified the man, and a sponsee, one of our bigger guys stopped him and then followed him as he removed the phone memory card and went to the john. The cops were there when he came out and knew him by name from other complaints, and because he’d once been a popular TV and radio personality.
My sponsee testified for some hours at the trial and the guy was put away for 78 years. Because we won’t tolerate that. It irks me that people here suggest that we might. Not so.
Without the involvement of my group this guy would have gone on hurting kids, and I’m glad we were there to stop that.
January 14, 2011, 2:06 p
Uh-oh! Someone from A.A. defending his group? Wow! The gall of that guy.
1. diablo saysOh, you have no idea what kind of zoo you just stumbled into. Enjoy the ride diablo.
Staunch believers in AA seem so bossy. It seems that when they post here, all they can do is tell others what to do and attempt to attack or belittle others that aren’t in line with their erroneous beliefs. This blog would make a fascinating psychological study.
Golly Gee, have you seen the remarks from all your buddies. You sound delusional, I would have said “in denial” but since we were pretending to do a psychological study, I mind as well be as accurate as I can be.
I understand the venomous reaction to AA, many people who post here have had some very abusive negative experiences with AA. Examples: being court ordered there because they had a DUI, going to a 12 step treatment program, going to AA by yourself and feeling violated after a few minutes of being there. If you have never had any experience with AA other then what you have read, well I feel sorry for you. You are definitely a candidate for a cult. Please go and join Tom Cruise and John Travolta.
Folks this site (chat) were having right now (at least the one your having with yourselves) could be considered thought reform, brainwashing and possibly a bit cultist. Read what you say. Tsk! Tsk!
AA, can appear and sound like a cult, brainwashing, forced thought control, among some of the popular adjectives attached to AA protocol.
There is one problem though (at least with the “cult” theory) , you can get up and walk out of any meeting you want. You can accept the steps or not ect…. AA is to open to be a cult. Read the definition of a cult, AA does not fit.
Nice yakking with ya folks. Hope to continue.
1. diablo says
I don’t regret being a part of AA as I don’t regret being a part of my ex-wife’s life or the last job I had ect…..My god man. Most of us who entered AA were banged up bad probably. We needed a solid footing to re-establish ourselves an those darn AA’ers helped. So as we leave we kick them in the balls on the way out. Like walking up to my ex-father in law and kicking him. No way I learned a lot from both experiences.
Yes I no longer associate with AA as many here, I have moved on. AA opened my eyes (perspective) to so much I can not even begin to articulate everything. Just so much to be grateful for.
Yes!!!!There are whack-jobs there (as in any exclusive society) there are folks who take the Big Book and the steps within and bastardize them as their own. Totally take them out of context. AA does (the people) try to make you dependent on them or you will die. This is a philosophy I had a major problem with. To many treatment centers got a hold of AA and twisted the steps to their advantage.
There is a letter that was written concerning a speech Bill Wilson gave in 1970 at a conference (I believe in Pittsburgh) that he expressed his fears of Treatment Centers doing this very thing, He also shared again that he never believe in the disease/allergy concept. It begs you to read this speech. He was afraid of this very thing Treatment Centers would do to keep people coming back. Hey!!! They need to make money.
1. diablo says
Martha, thanks. I believe I was one of the first 1,000,000 to read the Orange papers. I believe this was early 2000 or late 90′s. We need to remember that the person (who left his name anonymous; coward) is expressing his experience and opinions, trying valiantly to gather scientific studies, surveys ect…yet failed. There is nothing he has produced that would hold scrutiny under a “Peer Review” or any anything similar.
There used to be a site dedicated to chatting about this very topic. It closed during the middle part of this decade.
January 15, 2011, 3:48 pm
1. diablo says
FEAR……FEAR. You are introducing a behavior they are not familiar with (in so far as consciously) everyone else is, as you are pointing out but they are not.
In one of my (3) posts (lol) I explained AA (the people) trying to create a atmosphere of dependence.
1. diablo says
Terrance was a coward at first then later came out with his name.
January 15, 2011, 4:45 pm
1. diablo says
Attacking Terrance nope, I am not doing this. Terrance when he first wrote his piece left his name out. This is all I stated and we all felt he was a coward and “walaa” his name appeared later.
Who said I was defending AA????
WoW,, what kool-aid are you drinking.
You folks are all set up with your speeches, mantra’s, links and what not. My god did I waltz into the AA anti- world, from the “twilight zone”.
Guys I have not talked about the O papers in years. Millions are still going to AA worldwide and will continue.
Bob and Bill started a group with a coffee pot and a Bible for Alcoholics. If y’all want to have a problem with that have at it.
Yeah, with all the others problems in your lives at one time or another, will put AA right up there as a big one. You can’t be serious. Most of you are not talking about AA anyway, your talking about your Treatment Center version of AA.
January 15, 2011, 5:15 pm
1. diablo says
I am having a serious issue with authenticity of these articles. Bill flatly stated many times that he did not agree with the concept that Alcoholism was a disease or allergy. He even went on to say that he felt people were putting Alcoholism along side other diseases such as cancer. Which is incorrect, he was quoted as saying. Alcoholism can be arrested in most cases but cancer could not in the 60′s and earlier.
Why would he then contradict himself, (or I suppose none of you have heard of what I am talking about). I can not seem to find the link right now (as I said earlier) but I will it is archived. I will post within the next day I’m sure.
The disease theory really took hold in the treatment industry. What better way then to keep them coming back, tell ‘em they have a life long disease.
I will say this Bill did promote this life or death theatrics baloney. I think he did this because of his experiences and others back in the 30′s.
I have always found it to be amazing when I read gifted intelligent people such as yourselves arguing and debating the ideas, concepts and conclusions of a man far older then you that had experiences with alcohol that were over as far back as 1934.
He died in 1971.
My point is not that you can not argue with Bill or Bob, it is more why???? He was dead when most of you were very young (including myself). I never felt in my whole time in AA that Bill or Bob was influencing my recovery. It seems that you folks have gave him more power then really is necessary.
He was not coming to us as a Scientist, Doctor of Medicine or Psychology, a Professor or anything other then a garden variety drunk. Even Bob who was a Doctor never felt the need to exploit this advantage. They had a idea for helping fellow drunks that others appreciated and it bloomed from there. Bill wrote endlessly about alcoholism almost to a point of obsessiveness. His life had become and revolved around AA. I have never taken Bill, Bob or AA literally, in the sense that I gave up myself nor did I feel a overwhelming weight pushing on me to do this.
I read all this rhetoric here and i wonder what the heck happened to you folks. Did you not get enough love growing up, so life is just pissing you off and hey BtW AA sucks too. Yeah!!! lets kick the crap out of AA. We have our AA anti-book the Orange Papers.
I applaud the AA book and the Orange Papers. Great!!!!!
AA has changed and AA is still the same depends upon your perspective. I don’t think AA has changed at all. I received what I did and realized that there was nothing more to get. So just like I left home at 19 years of age, I left AA. Many had done the exact same thing as I had before, during and after.
January 15, 2011, 10:49 pm
1. diablo says
J.R. Harris wrote:
Bill W is dead, he was a know womanizer, adulterer, and had no income except from a Snake Oil Cult called AA. Unfortunately many people are trying to follow in his foot steps and the 10 Billion dollar industry it has spawned. Unfortunately people such as yourself are caught up in this and being played as pawns to help fund the cult. I feel sorry for you and hope you see the light some day. It is not to late to save yourself.
J.R. ever cheated on a girl while involved, ever not had income except from royalties (Benjamin Franklin did)
Oh boohoo, Billy boy was not your model citizen. Grow up!!!!!!!
Who freakin cares, this is about my life (our lives) not Bills. Did I get something out of the Big Book Yes!!!, did I act like a automaton, No!!!! .
All this crap your buddies and you are spewing here is just crazy. Oh, “chicken little” AA is coming.
AA, is just fine…big, small, here or there. AA will keep doing what it has been doing for 76 years. Providing coffee, a donut, conversation and a reason maybe not to drink for a day.
That’s it…..the essence.
Sorry I could not get into your “group think” here. I forget my percussion’s. lol
Maybe “you folks” should calm down on the, “confrontational attacking group therapy model” your ascribing to here. Jeesh!!!!!
January 16, 2011, 10:42 am
Oooooooooohhh! What a Hitler Devil this diablo character is! He said, “Maybe you folks should…! What a dictator! Woo.
1. diablo says
I totally agree. It’s a religious organization plain and simple. If people don’t see that then it is because they don’t want to see it. I don’t frequent other message boards of known cults or religions because people know what they buying in to when they walk in. Most of them have been exposed as cults and do not enjoy the media presenting them in a different light like AA does. AA should have to come clean and call itself a religion because it is the truth even if they deny it. Shit, at least when someone buys booze or cigarettes there is a warning label on them.
Please give me your definition of a religious organization, please. I had to throw out my Websters Dictionary and Religious Encyclopedia out because I felt they weren’t doing their job.
January 16, 2011, 10:47 am
He’s having the guts to try to reason with these folks and delve into the pit with them. He’s not had enough pig-mud flung on him quite yet…
1. diablo says
Hey tintop and Primrose my sentiments exactly. Why bother to educate the people who refuse to change. How ever I believe you ancient baby boomers will prevail eventually and come out of your whoa is me, attitude.
AA is not making your life as unpleasant as you make it out here. All these horrific experiences that everyone just spouts off around here, is there a longitudinal study, a peer review any citations at all to back up all these atrocities.
Naaaa, I didn’t think so. Please don’t quote; Stanton Peele and George Vaillants, been there done that.
January 16, 2011, 2:27 pm
Some more diablo coming up… what’s missing is the multiple pissing and moaning posts in between his…
1. diablo says
Maybe the last 5 posters can do me a favor. READ MY POSTS CORRECTLY!!!!!!
I have not been to a meeting in 5 years. This was after going for 23 years. Yes so almost 28 years have past.
So I have a fairly rational account of AA and the people that attend AA. Most of you simply can not understand the difference.
So I want my little chitin’s to stop with your “group think” and allow for other thoughts to come in. OK…..
January 16, 2011, 9:07 pm
Don’t believe me? Here’s an example of that…
1. tintop says
diablo get a life and stop whining
January 17, 2011, 5:16 am
Now, multiply that by 116 and you’ll get the thread comment total.
… and some more…
1. Mona Lisa says
If I may be so bold, the proper way to ignore diablo and others like him is not to respond in the first place.
Over and out.
January 17, 2011, 5:23 am
Mona Whinna, the hours you would have to spend ignoring not-like-minded-whinny-bitches like yourself would send you into a time warp long before man had ever crushed grapes. Oh… maybe you’re on to something. As you were.
1. Tony J says
” I came home from work one day to find the locks changed and all of my clothes in boxes, just like she had told me about someone else who did in that the rooms. We were not mad at each other , she had just decided with the help of AA that I am not like her and never will understand her. ”
Gee, can’t see why any sane woman would leave a charmer like you.
Did you accuse her of engaging in kiddie porn and use the manipulation and shame monering you try to use on me here ?
Good for her. I’m sure she’s better off without you.
I chalk that up as another victory for AA.
January 17, 2011, 6:12 am
Uh-oh… Stinkin’ Thinkin’ is in some shit now!
1. Gunthar2000 says
January 17, 2011, 6:24 am
2. tintop says
Keep coming back tony. You are dong an outstanding job of demonstrating the greatness of AA; you are outstanding in your field!!
We will love you until you can love yourself.
Have a wonderful day!!
January 17, 2011, 6:51 am
3. Ben Franklin says
Gunthar I second that.
January 17, 2011, 8:11 am
Say hello to the peanut gallery.
1. Tony J says________________________________
Gunthar2000 says Enough already.
You’re right. It should be ‘shame-mongering’. It’s hard to type in this little box somtimes.
January 17, 2011, 8:32 am
So... I wonder how much longer the Tony J experiment will hold up. Hat's off to ya TJ. You know where the showers are when you're done over there. We'll leave the hot water runnin'.
Look at you dorky fucks! Mostly one non-anti/XAer comes in to comment, then Tony J makes a cameo… and you now have 116 comments badgering the witnesses! Wow! You folks are so useful and attractive! Comic relief is more like it.
This just in!!!!!!!!
Weird, jd has virtually stopped posting, while tj’s posts have increased. Almost seems to be a linear relationship between the two.diablo says
January 17, 2011, 10:36 am
Well Tony has a point doesn’t he. JR., for everything I have read about you is drowning in narcissism. Your wife’s so-called problems pale in comparison to your obsessive chastising of her and her choices. Women here, honestly, you would want to live with this.
Whether you people here like it or not, Americans get to make their own choices.
AA, is a choice folks make, regardless of what you may think. All this, Oh I have to save the world from AA, they are killing people bla, bla, bla. Please, save it for your Treatment Center Web Site Forums.
You freak’in people are sick, I know most of the people who share on this site are from AA, it is obvious. You sound exactly like the crusty, crappy-heads that hang around AA for 50 years. You really do. There is no difference, you still have compulsive attacking behaviors. Your right and be damned with everyone else, it is “all or nothing” with you folks. All you have done is switched your hat, what is up in your head is still skewed.
I can only hope in my time here that the “peanut gallery” I have been reading for the past couple of days changes.
January 17, 2011, 10:37 am
Mike, There’s really no mistaking the two. JD has his limits.
January 17, 2011, 10:42 am
Fuck off diablo. You are a real sick fuck… The same kind of shit that goes on in AA every day… get a little bit of personal info about someone, and then try to use it against them.Fuck off diablo? Really Cunthair2000? That's really all you got?
If you don’t like what people on this blog have to say, you can find a whole bunch of wacky AA sites all over the web.
Just fuckin’ get lost now.
January 17, 2011, 10:44 am
I thought your blog was Rated-G... What the Fuck happened over there? Diablo, apologize. You two need to kiss and make up.
And Tony J, you might want to make an amend to JR about his relationship comments. Poor guy isn't the only one in a failed relationship. You know as well as I that he probably didn't get dumped by his ex. He, like me, probably drove her away with a Mack Truck because they grew apart.
So tell us, Stinkin' Thinkin' ... about the word serenity? What does this word serene mean? Can you show us what we're missing? Ha ha! Pass the popcorn.
Hey, guess what???? If you don’t want to feel isolated switch your group, stand up for yourself, read the Big Book, stop being dependent (obsessively) on people, move, find friends that endorse “you” ect……
Ya know I have been to meetings/groups I thought were seriously deranged, I left and never went back, i found another meeting/group. The one I liked that favored my type of personality.
January 17, 2011, 10:45 am
If you want to understand your ego and its function, i would not suggest you go to AA.Gunthar2000 says
As far as AA tearing down your, “Ego”. There can be a valid point made I presume. Though if you were to read the book AA , I don’t believe there is any aggressive tearing going on concerning the ego. Now, if you want to gather all your information about AA through the social activities of AA, Yes I could see how, “a tearing sensation” would be felt.
January 17, 2011, 10:51 am
Hey, guess what???? I just decided to leave AA entirely and be done with all of the crazy fuckin’ people period.On second thought diablo... as you were. I wouldn't apologize to a guy who keeps sticking his finger in your face.
Fuck your book!
Fuck your religious cult!
And fuck you!
Why would anyone bother to read anything diablo has to say?Keep ignoring him Gunthar2000, Gunthar2009, Todd. whatever your name is. You're doing fine ignoring him.
This person is just a troll who needs attention. I’ll be damned if I’m going to give it to him.
The only thing trolls get from me is a big fat FUCK YOU!
January 17, 2011, 11:35 am
Diablo made mention of the A.A. book not delving into the breaking down of the ego. Then Martha rightly points out the fallacy of this as she quotes the 12 x 12.
In my group, we don't use the 144. It's conclusive and bullshit that Bill Wilson wrote when he was off his rocker. It's a static snapshot of his current experience...not always good and not always bad...
The point is, put the 144 down and get your own experience in the book Alcoholics Anonymous... or don't.
says Go fuck yourself diablow.
January 17, 2011, 11:12 am
says I think all trolls should be banned immediately.diablo says
January 17, 2011, 11:17 am
Well Gunthar, On most sites you would have been already banned for your foul-mouth. I am not a troll, I just don’t happen to agree with you.Stay down, Gunthar... stay down!
As far as JR is concerned, I’m sure he is a big boy and he can take it. He dishes it out enough.
Thanks once again for showing me the better side of, “Stinkin’ Thinkin’ ” (pun intended)
January 17, 2011, 11:37 am